Rifle Dilemma

[matthewb0051]

Last week I was given a Diamondback DB10 from a criminal case. If my research is right, the MSRP for this one is around $1,700. It is chambered in 308. No mags and no sights or scope. It's nice but I'm leaning towards an exchange for a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch rifle.

Both local dealers that I frequent have one, both previously owned and in very good shape. Both under $800. Both are .223.

I know it is possible to put .223 through a 5.56 rifle, but does it work in reverse as well?

I think I can do a straight swap, or at least hope so. Thoughts?

[Tobra]

Mini 14 is safe to run 5.56

[Tim Hancock]

I have read that 5.56 chambered have a bit more space in the chamber than .223 chambered firearms. Supposedly it could cause too high of a pressure using a 5.56 round in a .223 chambered gun. This is the general rule but may not be applicable in all .223 chambered rifles.

[id10t]

5.56 is higher pressure/has a longer throat than 223. The 223 "Wylde" chamber cutting is kinda a half and half mix between.

For mags for the DB10 I think P-Mag makes some. If ammo cost isn't an issue (even surplus 308 if you can find it is 80+c/rnd) I'd probably keep it.

Problem with AR-10 types is there just isn't a standard for a lot of things and interchangability between manufacturers is iffy.

If you don't want to deal with 308 ammo costs and prefer 223, then I would say just get/build an AR. I had a Mini-14 in the late 80s (just before ranch version was released) and it was inaccurate, magazines are expensive (and getting good ones that Just Work can be tricky), and I actually shot the barrel out after about 4000 rounds. Of course, that was when Walmart had 'em for $419 OTD with tax, and even an Olympic AR was $550... Prices are reversed now, and you can get a really good basic AR for $500-700.

Personally my next upper (I have a lower for every purpose - it is uppers I'm short on) is going to be one of the FoxTrot Mike's bufferless piston driven ones, but if I were pondering buying a rifle their new "not-AR" which is mostly AR looks very interesting

[id10t]

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by id10t

If you don't want to deal with 308 ammo costs and prefer 223, then I would say just get/build an AR. I had a Mini-14 in the late 80s (just before ranch version was released) and it was inaccurate, magazines are expensive (and getting good ones that Just Work can be tricky), and I actually shot the barrel out after about 4000 rounds. Of course, that was when Walmart had 'em for $419 OTD with tax, and even an Olympic AR was $550... Prices are reversed now, and you can get a really good basic AR for $500-700.

I may already have a couple. Or they may be at the bottom of the lake, I forget.

[sc_rufctr]

I can't ad anything expect that I'd like a job were people can give me a firearm as part payment.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I can't ad anything expect that I'd like a job were people can give me a firearm as part payment.

Or you had a neighbor that took payment in firearms that had enough and liked to share the wealth!

[JavaBrewer]

Ruger Mini 14 came as a ranch or target rifle platform. The ranch rifle will eat .223 or 556 NATO no worries. The target model is .223 and not NATO approved. The ranch rifle is far more prevalent and has a bunch of options to turn it into a target rifle. It's a hated platform depending on who you talk to. I think its a hoot to plink with but never going to be a match quality rifle. Up to you on what you want. I don't shoot match events, hell my eyes are worthless past 75 yards.

[id10t]

If you aren't set on something with high mag capacity/semi-auto, I can also heartily recommend the Howa Mini in 223. Fantastic little bolt gun, much smaller and lighter than a standard short action, threaded barrel, wonderful trigger (and further adjustable, haven't seen the need to on either of mine), factory MOA guarantee (mine gave me 2moa with cheap PMC FMJ stuff, still working on a reload recipe but I need powder!), about $500 from Bud's plus transfer fees. Slap a Mueller or Vortex scope on top and be happy.

[masraum]

Other than the Mini14 Ranch, is there anything else 223/556, wood stock, semi-auto.

I've seen a bunch of stuff about the Mini 14, and it seems like there was a period when there were iffy, you might get a decent one or you might get a lemon. It seems like these days, the QC has improved, at least, I've heard more good than bad in more recent reviews.

But I'm wondering, is there anything similar that isn't black plastic? I don't have anything against black plastic, but wood is so much nicer.

After some googling, I don't think there is anything other than the mini-14. There's the Benelli R1, but it only comes in larger calibers.

[Jeff Higgins]

Java got it right in that the only Mini 14 in which we shouldn't shoot 5.56 is the "Target" model. These are pretty darn rare, though, since the Mini 14 is anything but, no matter how it's marked (or chambered). Every other model is safe with 5.56.

The Ranch Rifle was no more than an improvement in the ejection system that allowed for lower, centered scope mounting. It's a lot like the Winchester Model 94 Angle Eject, wherein spent cases go more out to the side, rather than straight up upon ejection. A pretty worthwhile improvement should one like to scope their rifle.

These things were, at one time, notoriously inaccurate (just watch old A-Team reruns... ). We're talking "good" ones might hold 4 MOA. The very rare, luck of the draw "unicorn" would hold 2 MOA. I found one, a very early "pre-warning" example, and it shoots superbly. And no, it's not for sale...

Modern examples, like anything manufactured in the current millennia, are vastly improved. There were some subtle redesigns, better quality control, and that sort of thing. Pretty much every one of them today is an honest 2 MOA rifle.

Interestingly, Bill Ruger teamed with Eugene Stoner, the progenitor of the M16, on this design. Mr. Stoner later decried the fact that he had finished, and presented to the U.S. government, the M16 before he could finish his work on the Mini 14. He was convinced that had he had available working examples of the Mini 14, it would have beaten the M16 in government trials and would have been adopted for military use. He was convinced it was a better rifle.

Here's mine. I really have no use for it, and only keep it as kind of a piece of firearms history. Just not my thing. I can, however, recognize what is an excellent design. I do not, and will probably never own any kind of an AR, but I'll hang onto this thing.

[craigster59]

I have the stainless version. Works for me and functions well, no complaints. I have heard the "pre warning" spoons are priced higher but haven't heard if they're more accurate than today's model.

Mine does have the Accu-Strut "barrel brace" that is supposed to help accuracy with a hot barrel. Not sure if it works or just looks cool....

[Rusty Heap]

I've always wanted a Mini 14 in stainless to match my 10/22 that is stainless.

but frig, just went out to cabelas and the .223 ranch model in SS is 1100 bucks now!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by craigster59

I have the stainless version. Works for me and functions well, no complaints. I have heard the "pre warning" spoons are priced higher but haven't heard if they're more accurate than today's model.

Mine does have the Accu-Strut "barrel brace" that is supposed to help accuracy with a hot barrel. Not sure if it works or just looks cool....

"Pre-warning" Rugers of all models are just more collectible, that's all. They are not of any higher (or lesser) quality. Something about having half the barrel festooned with "warning, you can put an eye out" seems to be a bit off putting for many shooters. Imagine that.

The only "pre-warning" gun that shooters avoid is, in fact, the Mini-14. Those were the early ones that garnered its poor reputation for accuracy. Be careful though, just because it has the warning doesn't mean it's new enough to have had the issues addressed. I believe there is information available regarding the serial number range in which Ruger improved this rifle.

[Rusty Heap]

Higgins need to sell me Heapster his Mini-14, hint hint.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by masraum

Other than the Mini14 Ranch, is there anything else 223/556, wood stock, semi-auto.

The Browning BAR was available in 223, and of course the HK 770 (?) but imports were cut off and the few that were in the country are being converted to fake G36s I think...

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Here's mine. I really have no use for it, and only keep it as kind of a piece of firearms history. Just not my thing. I can, however, recognize what is an excellent design. I do not, and will probably never own any kind of an AR, but I'll hang onto this thing.

I know a guy at my range with the 1976 Bicentennial model of that. He won't let it go for any amount of money....I've tried.

[Rapewta]

First..
I have never encountered any shooter that had a problem with 5.56 in a 223 chambered rifle.
The 5.56 has more pressure and lots of people have different opinions.
Me, I have a Mini14 stamped chambered for 223 and I shoot 5.56. No problems.
Ruger says it is ok except for the target rifle.
Shoot the 5.56 and the 223, whatever is less expensive. Enjoy.

[matthewb0051]

Thanks guys.

Heading out of office early today and will make a pit stop at the gun story to check out the merchandise.