Alignment question…

[A930Rocket]

I got my truck aligned again, because they did not center the steering wheel. They said they got it as close as they could to specs, blaming 1–/2” wheel spacers and a 4 inch spindle lift.

I’m not an alignment specialist, but two questions.

1- why would the lower control arm bolts not be the same front to back, on each side. Looking at the pictures, you can see one bolt on each side is either all the way in and the other one not.

2- how do you think my alignment looks compared to Ford specs?

Edit, you can see where I marked in yellow the original bolt locations.

[masraum]

Weird, the factory specs specify different caster and camber per side. I guess that's one of those trucks with the asymmetric suspension components, and the difference is to compensate for variations in flex/give/geometry side to side.

All in all, the alignment isn't too bad except for the camber which is positive on one side and negative on the other.

I hate to say it, but when they tell me "that was as far as it would go" most of the time I think they are either incompentent or lazy. I have no doubt that it's possible that some vehicles could be off from the factory or due to accidents that actually do make alignments a best effort sort of thing, but I suspect most alignment places use that as an excuse.

I used to work at a bar, and the bar manager told me, "if anyone asks for a frozen drink, the blender is broken," and that was a house rule the entire time that I worked there (nothing wrong with the blender, but frozen drinks were a PITA and time consuming.

[A930Rocket]

I think difference between right and left for the factory alignment specs are for the crown in the road.

What I don’t understand is why both lower bolts are not in or out the same amount. Why would they pivot one side and not the other? When I installed the lower control arms, there isn’t any ply to twist them like that.



I think I need to look for a new place.

[David]

Different specs are for the crown.

It looks like the bolts are all the way out so that's as much camber as you can get. I like more caster so the fact that you have more is a good thing and surprising that you could get it if raised suspension.

I had a heck of a time getting my new Tundra aligned after just raising the front end 2". I changed the upper control arms to TRD pieces and got it where I wanted it. It's really surprising how bad most alignment techs are at understanding alignment

[A930Rocket]

They have the front lower control arm bolts pushed out and the rear lower control arm bolts pushed in.

I don’t know why they would pivot the control arms like that, instead of adjusting them in and out the same amount on each side.

[fastfredracing]

That would be one way to move caster .

[David]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

That would be one way to move caster .

Yep, really the only way to adjust caster if no adjustment on the upper control arm. When I got my Tundra aligned at the dealer, I had to explain to the tech how the two bolts worked. He thought one was for camber and the other for caster! They obviously both affect camber and caster.

The whole dealer episode was funny and sad. I told them I wanted to talk to the techs about how I wanted the alignment set. They said OK but I could only be in the shop for a couple minutes. I went back and talked to the techs, they didn't seem to total understand but I was told I had to go back to the waiting area. About 30 minutes later they called me to the shop. Apparently the techs didn't understand alignment adjustment at all so I spent about 15 minutes with them explaining how everything worked.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I think difference between right and left for the factory alignment specs are for the crown in the road.

What I don’t understand is why both lower bolts are not in or out the same amount. Why would they pivot one side and not the other? When I installed the lower control arms, there isn’t any ply to twist them like that.



I think I need to look for a new place.

I've never seen a factory alignment recommendation that wasn't equal right to left. I have had alignments that were dissimilar right to left which usually resulted in a pull or drift, and was always told by the alignment folks "crown of the road". But if I have a drift or pull in normal driving, they can kiss my grits, make the alignment symmetric side to side.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by David

It's really surprising how bad most alignment techs are at understanding alignment

ding, ding, ding

[masraum]

Originally Posted by David

Yep, really the only way to adjust caster if no adjustment on the upper control arm. When I got my Tundra aligned at the dealer, I had to explain to the tech how the two bolts worked. He thought one was for camber and the other for caster! They obviously both affect camber and caster.

The whole dealer episode was funny and sad. I told them I wanted to talk to the techs about how I wanted the alignment set. They said OK but I could only be in the shop for a couple minutes. I went back and talked to the techs, they didn't seem to total understand but I was told I had to go back to the waiting area. About 30 minutes later they called me to the shop. Apparently the techs didn't understand alignment adjustment at all so I spent about 15 minutes with them explaining how everything worked.

I think that the usual process is "twiddle the bolts until the machine shows green" (regardless of where in the range any of the numbers are, green means "good and all done") And 99.9% of folks won't notice or care.

[David]

After installing TRD upper control arms on my Tundra I thought I'd try an alignment shop rather than the dealer or regular repair shop. It's practically all they do so what could go wrong!?!?! They hooked it up, the caster was in red and the camber barely in green. The tech said it's all good. I told him I liked the extra caster (why I installed the TRD UCA's) but I'd like a little more negative camber, about half a degree. He reluctantly said OK but wouldn't let me witness. Sure enough, got it back with print out and not what I asked for.

[911 Rod]

The tech at the alignment shop that I used to go always insisted that my tires had to be inflated to the max on the sidewall.
I don't go there anymore.

[Rusty Heap]

Time for new tires for the 996, look at what I show for wear on the inner tire body.!

The other side is in worse shape and won't hold air..


Then a full alignment by a Pcar shop I'm guessing is in order



Comments on the tire wear ? besides ugly

[911 Rod]

^^^ more camber than you need for a street vehicle.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

Time for new tires for the 996, look at what I show for wear on the inner tire body.!

The other side is in worse shape and won't hold air..


Then a full alignment by a Pcar shop I'm guessing is in order



Comments on the tire wear ? besides ugly

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

^^^ more camber than you need for a street vehicle.

This is a German car site, right? Is there a German car that DOES NOT wear like this?


rjp

[masraum]

Originally Posted by David

After installing TRD upper control arms on my Tundra I thought I'd try an alignment shop rather than the dealer or regular repair shop. It's practically all they do so what could go wrong!?!?! They hooked it up, the caster was in red and the camber barely in green. The tech said it's all good. I told him I liked the extra caster (why I installed the TRD UCA's) but I'd like a little more negative camber, about half a degree. He reluctantly said OK but wouldn't let me witness. Sure enough, got it back with print out and not what I asked for.

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

The tech at the alignment shop that I used to go always insisted that my tires had to be inflated to the max on the sidewall.
I don't go there anymore.

Yep, mostly clueless, and just knowledgeable enough to keep the avg Joe happy which is a bare minimum requirement.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

Time for new tires for the 996, look at what I show for wear on the inner tire body.!

The other side is in worse shape and won't hold air..

Then a full alignment by a Pcar shop I'm guessing is in order

Comments on the tire wear ? besides ugly

It's my impression that a lot of edge wear is often from excessive toe.

Of course worn components could also cause that sort of impact.

I don't think that's due to camber or not only camber. For that to be the result of camber, I think you're car would have to look like one of those "stance" cars.

[David]

My Cayman has a lot of camber now since it's set up for the track but even before that I'd get more wear on the inside. I think it's a small price to pay for increased performance. I look at tires like beer: I buy them to enjoy not to last.

[A930Rocket]

I got 50,000 miles out of my first set and 40,000 miles out of my second set of tires with the 3 inch level and the same spacers on the truck.

I’m not feeling confident with the alignment, but time will tell what kind of mileage and wear I get with the 4” spindle lift and the same spacers.

I don’t think I’m as concerned with caster, as much as I am with camber and toe.

Two things that still irk me are: the steering wheel is still not centered 100%. Second, I asked for a photograph of the current alignment and a photograph of the finished alignment. I even put a yellow post it on the windshield they could not miss.

I got a picture of the post alignment (after asking again), which is above. I mean how hard is it to snap a picture to show the before, unless they were hiding something.

When I took it back the second time to get the steering wheel centered, I mentioned that I think they forgot to align the truck, because the steering wheel was the same as when I dropped it off. They seem to get offended and said if I was charged for it, it must’ve been done! 🙄

If I take it to a third place, I think I will mark the lower control arm bolts and open up the slots for more adjustment for more negative camber. Then tighten it up and take it in.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Two things that still irk me are: the steering wheel is still not centered 100%.

When I took it back the second time to get the steering wheel centered, I mentioned that I think they forgot to align the truck, because the steering wheel was the same as when I dropped it off. They seem to get offended and said if I was charged for it, it must’ve been done! 🙄

I'd take it back, want the wheel centered and want the before and after specs, or want to see the before and after specs for myself while the vehicle was in the air.

Second, I asked for a photograph of the current alignment and a photograph of the finished alignment. I even put a yellow post it on the windshield they could not miss.

I got a picture of the post alignment (after asking again), which is above. I mean how hard is it to snap a picture to show the before, unless they were hiding something.

I think most modern alignment machines enable them to print the alignment.