The Carlos Sainz/Ferrari contract dance is interesting . He wants a long term deal and so far Ferrari are hesitant . If they can't agree his contract ends at the end of this coming season .

Bottas and Zhou I believe are contracted until the end of this season . Does Carlos position himself to sign on with Sauber/Stake to then become an Audi factory driver ?

Quite the return on investment . Buy for 301 million and 7 years later worth 18.22 billion .

https://jalopnik.com/liberty-media-bought-formula-1-for-301m-seven-years-l-1851207068

Wow, Andretti denied. Doesn't add value to the F1 brand.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/why-formula-1-said-no-161000724.html

Yeah that is stupid phrasing on F1 part. Very insulting. Andretti is probably just after Fangio and Senna on the "famous racing names". They have $ and a US manufacturer backing, WTH F1 ?

The truth is: Our teams have us by the balls and refuse to dilute the prize money..

But Andretti not adding value to F1? Vs who ? HAAS? Alpha Tauri Visa EBT card ? Even Sauber (apologies, Sauber is a worthy team with longer history, but not exactly a huge brand name).

I tried to read that thread. Somehow, the word/letter spacing on my end made it really difficult to do so.

But the gist was that F1 wants teams to "add value.' By that, F1 expects the new team to challenge for wins and podiums. Great idea, but realistically only 3 or 4 of the current teams challenge for podiums, meaning over half the grid does not. And it's not like F1 relegates those other crappy 6 teams to F3 or karting.

The report cited that the regs change from 2025-2026. To have a new constructor make one car for 2025, and then have to make an entirely different car for 2026 would be difficult.

The lack of GM stepping in as an immediate engine (sorry Power Unit) supplier was a negative.
But then the report conceded that simultaneously introducing a new chassis and new PU would also be difficult for "adding value."

But the report also cited that Andretti's plans to use an existing PU supplier, but then the planned switch to another would also be quite challenging in terms of the first PU supplier and intellectual property.

All true, but it's not like any of these aren't issues that couldn't have been raised last year, when Andretti first filed their application. I mean, why would F1 even open up the possibility of introducing new teams (and 3 others applied, too), if these were the stumbling blocks?

That reads to me like F1 are trying to pressure Andretti to pressure GM into jumping in as a power unit supplier.

Could be, I didn't get that feeling right off. The feeling I got was one of the good ol' boys club. There was mention the the teams themselves opinions were not considered in this decision as it stands.

Yeah, right.

“While the Andretti name carries some recognition for F1 fans, our research indicates that F1 would bring value to the Andretti brand rather than the other way around.”

Expect to see their wind tunnel model on BaT soon :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1706731549.jpg

They likely also want more application/entrance fee money when the Concorde Agreement is renegotiated. The current $200million just isn't enough.

I am very disappointed by this decision and will reconsider my desire to watch this season or anymore.

I see a lawsuit looming.

They should can the 3 races the usa. It’s a slap in the face. A hard one. The fans - you think they won’t be mad??? The arrogant pricks. If they don’t think he can make it just let him try and watch him meddle at the back. What prize money would he take?

Man, international law must be a tough deal. (I know what I did there :D)

Who are they? We're gonna become nationalistic and legislate against F1? Liberty Media is a USA based company. Sorry.

We have all witnessed the ups and downs of racing with the general public. I watch all racing like a lot of us. I watch F1 because I always have, not because its good racing or really that interesting. This makes me want to watch less.

It just doesn’t make sense. No matter who owns it. Plenty of teams came and went in the history of F1. If F1 does not think Andretti can do it with the regulation changes/customer engine , well maybe in 4 yrs etc… but what do they have to lose by letting Andretti/GM try? It’s not their $$. The likelihood of Andretti taking prize $ in near term is low. It would garner more attention more sponsors more everything. I just don’t see how it could be bad.

Maybe they do not like they way Andretti went about the whole thing.

"and for FOM, they were concerned about p*ssing off the teams that have made them a multi billion-dollar company."

Ah, to be back in the Bernie days. He would have most definitely allowed Andretti in just for this purpose, because he knew he'd make even more money and get greater concessions from teams when he would threaten to run a 20 team series.

This, ultimately, is the fault of the FIA, not liberty media. Giving rules-making power to the manufacturers has resulted in the FIA having no power. FIA blinked when FOCA threatened to leave. F1 was the top of the game and every team knew it, but the FIA owned it; the FIA should have called their bluff, instead of conceding every time the teams cried. Now that corporations run the racing teams we now get to watch Boards of Directors fiduciary responsibility racing. Boring-azz-scheisse.

Well that puts a damper on the season before it starts. I saw this coming though, the hoop jumping was ongoing and a little much but I still figured that there is no way they could deny names like Cadillac and Andretti, especially when its in their Concorde agreement to allow 12 teams.
What I perceived as hoop-jumping was just a stall on what, IMO, should be an automatic call.
I don't follow the politics of this, Liberty media, Foca, Fom, Fia & Toto but I'm in shock at this decision. If these entities can't get a team in F1 than nobody can, period.
I hope the fall-out is huge and that the people responsible for the "no" receive endless B-slaps and one way tickets to visit M. Massi and that they have to take Greta with them.
Who are those guys?

In other news...

Sky just reported that Hamilton is going to Ferrari for 2025. :eek:

That will make this year rather dicey at Merc! I wonder if Carlos is going the other way. Pull the bandaid off and do it now!

Well that would explain Ferrari being hesitant to sign a long term contract with Carlos . Not sure I see the value for Ferrari to sign Lewis nearing the end of his career .

There was a story yesterday about Adrian Newey moving to Ferrari as well. That would be a 2 fer

I have mixed feelings about the Andretti deal. On one side, what other type of racing doesn't allow you to at least show up and try to qualify assuming you're following the rule book but on the other side, what pro sport, i.e. football, baseball, basketball, soccer, etc. let's you create a team and join the league without approval.

They could tell Andretti: there are 20 spots on the grid and you're welcome to show up and try to qualify for them.

F1 moves fast, Hamilton to Ferrari rumour and just like that Andretti are yesterday's news

I share your disappointment about Andretti as I really wanted their bid to be approved but having given the decision quite a bit of thought think it was the right call

Don't flame me on this but running as a customer team at the top of a spec. series like Indy or IMSA is nowhere near the challenge of competing at the bottom level of F1

Andretti just haven't got the quality and quantity of engineering resource to design 2025 and 2026 new rules cars in parallel

Various statements Andretti have put out just shout out they've not grasped the enormity of the challenge of F1

I think by FOM leaving the door open for a 2028 entry is actually a good call as it gives both Andretti and GM a more realistic timescale to arrive on the F1 grid and not make a fool of themselves and the F1 brand

Maybe FOM are protecting Andretti from their own over ambitious confidence as much as protecting F1 from diluting their own brand

Just my thoughts from knowing a little about successfully competing in F1

^^^ This. But they already had said there was room for 12 teams, no? Back in the day if you didn’t qualify you didn’t run.

Yeah the rumor mill is strong right now with Ham -> Ferrari. He worked for and respects Vasseur a lot and wants to end his career there. Not official yet but everyone is reporting this is imminent. Interesting ! Can’t wait for the first car test.

This is the first time I have read thoughts in support of the decision that make sense to me. It will be interesting to see how Andretti proceeds from here. I hope it does not get litigious and ugly.

If the Hamilton rumors to Ferrari are true, it will make for a crazy year with regards to team dynamics. Will Merc throw their weight behind George or try to give Lewis his last championship? Will the team feel betrayed? What if Carlos has a better year than Charles? Will either Lewis or Charles be happy being a #2 driver? Can they just swap now?

I've said this many times, and it's unpopular as hell to not be behind an Andretti entry, but the Andretti team isn't even consistently top tier in a spec series.
They don't have the resources in a spec series to keep a driver - whom many want to laud as "just as good as any F1 driver including Verstappen or Lando or Russell" - consistently in the hunt as a race winner or championship contender.

Sorry, not sorry that Mario didn't get his wish this time around.

Would I want to see another American team? Oh, hell yes. But please, send in the varsity squad. I'm not sure who that is, but my heart tells me it's not these guys.

Sky Sports is acting as though the deal is done. Now we wait and see!

The days of more teams showing up to qualify than there are available grid spots are long gone in F1. How long has it been? At least 30 years since teams that showed up didn't make the show and had to go home?

We still see this at lower levels of racing, of course. I think the sheer enormity of the commitment, and not just cost wise, effectively precludes anyone building a modern F1 team just to see if they can make the field.

I agree with our good Captain's assessment. Andretti simply does not grasp the full scope of what he is trying to get into. He does not have the resources to compete, either from a financial standpoint or from a talent standpoint. Not starting from ground zero.

Maybe he will end up buying one of the teams that is already established, but are barely hanging on themselves. I think that would be a better point of entry for him. There are a few that could conceivably come available in the next few years.

Apparently Mercedes was briefed about Hamilton's departure for 2025. I have this odd thing about older champions. I used to hate McEnroe until he was older and losing, now I love him.. I never liked Hamilton but somehow I think I will grow to like him more in an underdog Ferrari..
Guess Sainz will join Sauber a year before it becomes Audi then ?
I agree with you guys, Andretti should just buy Haas and call it a day, I'm sur eGene will sell if you don't short change him. I just thought the headline of "F1 doesn't benefit from Andretti's name" was rude.

Although zi am not surprised the team didn’t get in, as stated who else are they looking at as far as teams as they did say they wanted more teams. It also kind of negates the challenges for the courses to add more pits.

As far a Ferrari, it’s not their drivers so not sure why they would look elsewhere (at this point).

All good pre-season stuff though!

Some good point brought up here. Maybe having a fixed field is what's wrong. The fact that Ecclestone became billionaire 'owning' F1 was wrong. IMHO.

In essensense, all of racing is a fixed field. Hardly do you see more than 16 teams at NHRA in the top classes. NASCAR sends few home except Daytona 500 when old bones come out of the closet. Indy Car has a varying field, but I think if you're within a percentage, you race. At the Indy 500 maybe one car doesn't make it. One or 2 for the last several year as opposed the the 50 some odd cars that would try 30 years ago.

So the FIA/FOM/F1 invited teams that wanted to join the series to submit their bids . Those bids I have to assume contained their business models/sponsors/expertise to validate their submittal. If I remember correctly 3 or 4 teams submitted . Then after months of reviews those 3-4 were filtered down to just Andretti .

I have to assume someone ( ? ) thought Andretti passed the hurdles to be the lone survivor . So one faction of the good old boys network says welcome aboard . The other good old boys said no way . Think about it . You have a family that has raced around the globe since the 50's . Mario a world wide known name . GM is a world wide known car/truck manufacturer that is involved in a variety of racing series and successful in all of them . F1 you are telling us fans that a partnership between those two doesn't add value ? Hahaha haha you are fools .

Maybe their definition of 'value' is not what we think. I mean the distribution of money would be diluted from 10 entities to 11. I know it's convoluted, but even the bottom finishers get some.

Then why even open it up for applications ? If Andretti/GM don't add value then who can ? Not directed at you I am just saying .

That was a point of contention when the whole subject of expansion started months and months ago. It was the first bellyaching heard from the teams.