EVs didn't get better, ICE cars just turned to fat lard
 

just saw this: https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-new-bmw-m5-is-heavier-than-an-x5-slower-than-the-old-m5-to-60?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_s ource=facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2BfVzb8U 9lo6-eWueZ3Vu0wH42N9dz78Xw7YgekrTHq4OZEx_mbIuMwew_aem__ kJYK-DpPI0FusKIDTBFJQ

the new M5 is over 5000lbs.

the new M4 starts at 3,800lbs!
new corvette is 3,640lbs.
new mustang GT is 37000lbs.
new camaro SS is 3,696lbs.
even a new 911 is 3,4000lbs!

4000lbs is the new 3000lbs.

tesla model 3 performance: 3,800lbs


EVs didnt get better, ICE cars all just became hot, heavy, garbage.



automakers gotta figure out that the only way ICE is going to survive against EVs, is light, and cheap. because unlike EVs range is largely detached from curb weight (adding a couple gallons to the fuel tank doesnt add hundreds of pounds).

meanwhile, the ND3 ... Curb weight: 2,400lbs. GT86: 2800lbs

like it can be done. dont tell me it cant be done, it is being done.

even the new supra is "only" 3,2000lbs. only, lol. imagine a world where a car based on a small roadster is a 3000+ lbs car .... what a joke.

Safety safety safety. I love my 911 but if it came to a crash I'd much rather be in my Giulia with its extra 1,000 pounds.

Certainly there's a lot of bloat in modern cars, but it makes sense--it's also what more customers want.

That said, a new 911 is only 700lbs more than my '82. Considering how much larger and safer it is, that's not a lot of weight.

Costs more due to mandatory safety equipment… what does that look like? Electronic abs is mandatory instead of hydraulic, ecm encryption, emissions, ect.

Bingo! Elect people who dictate to us through regulation, and this is what we end up with.

I find amusement in one that delights in the belief that regulation can save us now bemoaning it's negative consequences... SMH

Cheap, fast, safe. Pick two. Or in this case, pick one, since Safe has been chosen for you.

There is no free lunch. But with regulation there is less choice....





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My 911SC weighs about 2500 lbs.

Be sure to dump your natural gas stove while you're at it. A given free rein bureaucracy knows what's best for us. As government grows-liberty shrinks. The new cars of today are but one example of many.

Size matters.

I can't think of a model that hasn't grown significantly over the years. 911's are now giants compared to the past.

Tire and wheel sizes have also grown significantly. Where is that picture of an new 911 tire/wheel up against the rear end of an older model 911. Mind boggling.

My beloved 1986 CRX was 1865 lbs per google.

Fun, reliable, economical, 45 mpg.

I guess too reliable to modern standards and too simple or not complicated enough.

What a shame.

Oh....... and the tires...

14 inch wheels.


Nevermind the mammoth rubber modern cars with


Talking about conserving resources and saving the planet

I was going to predict how many responses there would be before blaming of the government would start. I had 5, the number was 2 including the OP.

And deaths per mile are half what they were when that '86 came out. And those deaths/mile were half what they were in the 60s.

I'm okay with pudgier cars if it means more moms and dads making it home to their kids.

And about the size of a go-cart.

Compared to a 2024 Civic
Length 144 to 179
Width 64 to 71
Height 50 to 56.

This isn't the image I was thinking about but it does give a good comparison. This didn't happen due to regulation.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719421487.jpg

Bring back the bias ply tires for private vehicles.

In no way are bias ply in the same universe as a radial.

This universe or the next parallel one. Pros and cons.

https://benklesc.medium.com/they-dont-make-tires-like-they-used-to-the-forgotten-world-of-bias-ply-742c43672daa


I have a set of bias plys on a 54 f100 that have been on it since the 80’s. Still holding air and not dry rotted.

Same conditions, I’ll be 5 years for a set of radials to be trashed.

Forget who said it: "Those who want safety over liberty end up with neither."

Radial tires are.not the reason for automobile weight bloat.

We have both though? You can still buy an old car and risk your life, but new vehicles being produced are safer for everyone who mostly don't care either way.

I'm not saying "the new heavy cars are better in every way" than old cars.

But, I suspect a modern car that's 35-40 years newer than your old CRX is probably light years safer than your old CRX with more comfort features as well. I think the closest thing on the road today to a CRX (practically a micro car in its day) is a Smart Fortwo. I see in various websites that Smart ForTwo cars are reported as weighing anywhere from 1550-2050#s.

Hey, fella, don't bring logic into this!

We are in a new golden age of automobiles.

They are safer, quicker, faster, more economical, and more luxurious than cars from 20/30/40/50 years ago.

My 1978 SC cost 20,000 in 1978. That is nearly a 100,000 in today's dollars. There are numerous 2024 hot hatchbacks that can be had for 50,000 or less that will smoke my old SC in every category.

Stop living in the past and embrace the best vehicles that have ever been produced.

Unfortunately, the buying public's taste is running in just the opposite direction. Nobody wants light and cheap vehicles...they want big heavy ones. Cost and MPG don't seem to matter.

Just look around at what people are driving nowadays...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719425807.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1719425807.jpg

I just did a DE at Barber Motorsports in my antique 85 Carrera.

Many of the guys there were younger than my car. It was the ONLY air cooled car in a field of 165 cars. The whopping 200 HP is a joke compared to any of the modern cars on track with me. I was passed a lot.

I spent two days earlier that same week at the Porsche Driving experience in a brand new 911 GTS, and a new 991 Turbo S, and a Cayman GTS. I was expecting to see the stars turning to streaks like in Star Wars when they jump to hyper space in the Turbo S. It is just astonishing fast, but for 250K+ I ain't gonna get one.

The 911 GTS is just amazing. Just steer, hit the brakes or gas, and the PDK does all the rest. I was hitting 120 in the GTS with ease, and only 90 at redline in third in my antique at the same spot. I had just as much fun as the fast guys.

And no way will I sell my antique. Lots of the guys at the track came over and took pictures of my car and asked about it.

What is the mpg on a 2024 GMC compared to a 1980 or 2020 GMC?

Smart ForTwo (sizes seem to vary quite a bit, presumably due to different years/models.

Length - 100" - 106.1"
Width - 57.9 - 74.5
Height - 59.1" - 61.2"

I now understand what you are saying, and you are correct. The consumer is the primary driver of larger/heavier vehicles.

Both in size and 'options'. Massaging seats, larger rims and tires, larger brakes, etc.

It's an american trend.

The rest of the world can't afford this big, this, thirsty, overengineered vehicles .

Europe, Asia , South America, just look at the size of what's for sale.

Hey, late middle-aged white guys have it rough in this country, for a litany of reasons, and on top of that we're forced to buy ugly, bloated, oversized, overpowered disposable appliances loaded with every single luxury item a design team can possibly think of because THE GOVERNMENT IS MAKING US DO IT!!!

That Tundra made in San Antonio Texas sold for the american market exclusively.

The rest of the world prefers the simpler bullet proof hilux.

Why can’t they sell hilux in the United States?

Why can’t we buy diesel passenger vehicles that achieve 45+ mpg without a battery pack?

Because...the bureaucracy makes the rules. Sad, but true. As said before...forced to buy cars designed through bureaucratic regulations.

You can buy a Hilux and import it. Just pay the 25% light truck duty when it arrives.

A couple of points:
First, Tire technology. The changing rubber formula over the decades in pursuit of traction and longer milage is the reason modern rubber will age out. Not radial construct.
Second, Manufacturers, trying to sidestep fuel economy demands for passenger automobiles have pushed the market to SUVs. They have made the big arsed mobile roadblocks into " better deals " and marketed the heck out of them because the standards are more lax.

Best
Les

Exactly. Mustang is currerntly Ford's only car. Hmmmm.

25 year old hilux. Dot and epa age out exemptions.

Light, cheap, efficient doesn't really sell here, its not the mfg fault.

Honda fit, Nissan versa, Fiesta.....these are cars that would have been unheard of performance and efficiency wise in the 90s compared to similar size and placed offsets.

Rav4 outsells corolla and even the Camry.

The people have spoken with thier dollars, it sucks, but they want big.

Speaking of Camry, they are all hybrid starting next year: Huge and heavy compared to ye olden cars but dead nuts reliable, reasonably priced, 50mpg. Why should people buy something smaller other than fun?