Expresso Machines

tabs · 07:14 PM

I had a little Krups model 996...French Press and Expresso maker for over 10 years before it died in February...unfortunately they no longer make anything like it...So I have been looking for an Exptresso maker since then...everything I have seen in the department stores is basically junk.....

So I went on line in my search..I found a great website that really explains the pros and cons of the various machines on the market, and even has owner reviews on the machines...a great primer on the subject, well worth the time and effort to look it over even if U don't care about Expresso.http://www.wholelattelove.com

While looking at the various machines...one machine just stood out as being heads and shoulders above all the others....and that is the machines built by Salvatore...they are HANDMADE machines using the best quality commercial machine components....one really nice thing is that they are built right here in the USA in Solvang, CA....now they aren't cheap....the Semi Automatic is $1475.00 and the Automatic is $1675.00....The gal I talked to at Salvatore said, "If you have an attention span of at least 40 seconds you don't need the Automatic, people like the electronics." So I plunked my money down on a Semi and in 4 to 6 weeks they will deliver a nice shiney new Expresso machine so I can start getting my daily fix again.... If you are a quality nut like I am, and I think most Porsche owners ar U will like these machines...http://www.salvatore-espresso.com/

WOODPIE · 06-25-2003, 07:54 PM

It's almost incredible that you cheaped out like that! Why on earth would you even think the extra $200 should be a consideration in this purchase? Call them back and upgrade immediately! You're worth it!

Ed

Doug Zielke · 06-25-2003, 08:01 PM

tabs,
We have a small Rancillio machine in the kitchen. Itallian made with Ferrari quality....and spare parts prices to match!!

Isabo · 06-25-2003, 10:28 PM

I've never even heard of Salvatore and Rancillio.
I use a Gaggia at home and a Saeco at work.
They are both ok quality and cost around 100 euros. When the limescale build up beats me, (despite using bottled water and regular cleaning), I just buy another. I've had them professionally serviced at about half the cost of replacement but it's not worth it when you include the hassle of sending one away and being without my personal caffeine fix. I also keep a moka and a napolitana as emergency back-ups. Those are really a different kind of coffee but some people, eg my husband Armando, prefer it. Like many Italians my husband has a miniature moka he sometimes takes with him when travelling abroad. Italians often have heavy caffeine addictions and can't face life abroad without their kind of coffee. Similarly I have American friends that bring maple syrup when they stay with me.
I don't understand the cost of the Salvatore as an espresso machine is made from quite simple components, I take mine apart to clean sometimes. That being said if it made a better coffee as a coffee addict and a lover of quality kit I would certainly consider one. I also love the American Robochef mixer and they cost the earth compared to a usual one but they are certainly built to last.

CamB · CamB's Garage

Looks pretty good tabs. I dig those copper ones.

If coffee is not truely a passion, I suggest anyone reading skip the next bit otherwise I am going to seem like a total wanker.

This got me going on "Coffee in the USA" - a neverending source of amazement for me. Obviously, a lot of what I am about to say (pontificate) is pure opinion and personal taste. I'm really talking solely about shops which specialise in coffee too.

There is an amazing amount of effort expended (in the US) to get the perfect espresso. Dozens of websites extol the virtues of correct grind, tamping, water temperature etc. Even at Starbucks, the (heavily trained, if not well trained) staff can make a good espresso.

The coffee tastes awful though (personal taste). A lot of the blends and roasting favoured in the US is waaaaay off my preference. Lotsa overroasting IMO too. Pretty funny when the boss of Starbucks came down here a couple of years ago after opening Starbucks (burn those beans baby!) and said that our coffee culture was coming along well but that there were a lot of beans he would consider under-roasted... I'm not the only one who thinks Starbucks os overroasted.

So espresso generally is well made (IMO), the coffee is suspect in flavour and... the milk (for milk based drinks) is TERRIBLE. Everywhere I have been and had coffee in the US (basically California and New York) has screwed up the milk. I actually wondered for a moment if your cows were the problem... but Starbucks here in NZ make coffee that tastes EXACTLY the same as the US. Every Starbucks is like an American Embassy

So, the point of this rant? I want to ask you guys a couple of questions. I'm taking the moral high ground 'cause I've been fortunate to also go to Italy and what they call a cappuccino (basically coffee with lightly frothed, velvety textured milk - about 5oz in total) is what good coffee tastes like here too.

The questions:

- how hot is milk usually in GOOD cafes in the US (I can only assume that despite trying very hard, I never found a good cafe)? Every coffee I've had their had burnt (boiled?) milk
- do you guys know what I mean by velvety foam (you couldn't take a heaped teaspoon of velvety foam)
- does anyone drink anything under 12oz drinks (which Italians would laugh their asses off at, but which we would call a latte here in NZ - our own crime against coffee)?
- why, oh why, drink a 20oz coffee milkshake?

FWIW, I searched around a little and I now know what I like exists in the US:

- http://www.caffedarte.com/index.html
- http://www.espressovivace.com/

in particular, on milk:

- http://www.espressovivace.com/archives/9512scr.html
- http://www.espressovivace.com/archives/9601scr.html

But could I ever find a decent coffee when I was there.... Noooooooooo! OK, not quite true - 1 very good, one ok, one bad coffee from Cafe Trieste, North Beach, SF (the fact that the coffee there made an impression, despite being worse than any coffee I've had in NZ in the past year, says something about my dedication to this topic

).

By the way, favourite quote from the articles I read:

Frank raises an issue that goes to the future of espresso drinks in this country: Will American consumers ever graduate from the oversized milk-based drinks popularized in Seattle to an appreciation for straight crema-laden espresso? Milletto is outspoken on the subject. "Americans think bigger is better," he says. "Many coffee bars are even getting rid of the eight-ounce cup. A single 12-ounce cappuccino is insane—an Italian cappuccino should be served in a four- to six-ounce cup. The recipe has been bastardized."

And, of course, this "big is better" mentality doesn't stop at the 12-ounce cup. Nearly all of the cafe owners interviewed for this article lament the fact that customer demand has forced them to add 20-ounce cups. Even Caffe D'arte, which is about as close to the Italian tradition as you can get in this country, has given in. ("We had to corner Mauro in a room," reports general manager Joe Mancuso.)

Isabo · 06-26-2003, 03:49 AM

What kind of coffee do the other coffeeheads here use?
My favourite is velluto nero from Algerian Coffee Stores in London. I used to get a reasonable copy from my local neighbourhood roaster in Milan but he's recently sold up, so for the moment I'm making do with Illy. I loath Lavazza as it seems to leave an aftertaste.

Planter91C2 · 06-26-2003, 06:42 AM

McDonalds coffee is pretty good...

tabs · 07:07 AM

I've never been a Starbucks junkie...I have a hard time paying $3.75 for a Latte. I bought my little Krups machine in December of 1992 and I wound up making 2 Mugs of super strength coffee every mornining. I would buy my beans whole from Trader Joes...a local discount gourmet shop...now spreading through out the USA. I liked the flavor of the beans from different parts of the world.

As I said after looking I found the Salvatore....I guess part of the cachet is that it's a Handmade machine...that is apparently durable and it will do what I want it to do...plus Lattes and Capacinos.etc. Now I have to say a good part of my decision was based upon reading reviews on the mainline Italian manufactured machines... there was always some negative point made about them...and the tone of Whole Latte Love description of way the Salvatore was made and it's attributes..The Salvatore Automatic is expensive and it has taken me awhile to breakdown and say OK I'll buy it....but it isn't the most expensive home machine out there either. I think it represents good value for the money, yet how much is a cup of coffee really worth?

The gal at Salvatore convinced me to buy the Semi Automatic over the Automatic....their thinking is that you have to stand at the machine anyway...so what if you have to measure your own water, rather than have the machine do it. Again you only have to pay attention for 30 to 40 seconds. They feel that people are enamoured of the electronic aspects of measured water, and thats why they offer that option. They also feel there is less to go wrong with the Semi Auto machine. Their sales run 50/50 between the Auto and Semi...and that WLL is pushing the Auto for obvious reasons.

Finially the only places to purchase A Salvatore is through the manufacturer or WLL...and their association with WLL started in February/ March of 2003.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Hmm, I think you guys have money to burn . . .

Here's how we make our coffee. First, Peets Coffee beans - it's our local Berkeley stuff. Second, a simple $25 stove-top cast-aluminium espresso maker as made by Bialetti and other Italian companies (example at http://www.1-800-espresso.com/bialetti-espresso-maker.html ). Third, a $15 plunger-type milk frother (example at http://www.aabreecoffee.com/boaemifr.html ). The coffee is hearty, the foam is stiff, the total hardware cost is about $40, and the whole set-up is easily packed in a suitcase when visiting regions where watery, lukewarm McDonalds swill would otherwise be the only coffee choice.

tabs · 12:25 PM

I got U beet...I have an old Corning Ware 10 cup percolater stove top coffee pot....$5.00 at the local Thrift Store....I use that for my dinner parties...

Three, four years ago I was in the ole Thrift shop and noticed this guy buying up the half dozen or so no body wants them Corning Ware Coffee pots...seems like he ships them back home to the middle east somewheres says they make the best coffee...so who is to argue with the man...he did look a little edgy looking though...So the next one I saw I bought. They do make good coffee...or so my guests say.

BTW: My little Krups cost me $149.00 in 1992....it lasted just over 10 years which come to 14.99 a year...which is about $1.25 a month or $0.04 a day...beat that...

osidak · 06-26-2003, 01:04 PM

Cam I believe most coffee shops in the US steam milk to ~ 160 to 170 degrees.

Caribou Coffee (training states) does not reheat milk twice. Of course YMMV

Doug Zielke · 06-26-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Isabo
I've never even heard of Salvatore and Rancilio.
I

And you say you live in Italy, Isabo?
http://www.rancilio-na.com

Isabo · 06-27-2003, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
And you say you live in Italy, Isabo?
http://www.rancilio-na.com

That's right, but there's lots more to my life, my world and my ambitions than achieving an encyclopaedic knowledge of espresso machine manufacturers

For cheapskate quality coffee making: as a student we used to make Turkish coffee in a saucepan.
Sometimes in London with my husband we go to a Lebanese restaurant where they make this wonderful coffee flavoured with cardomon. I always mean to ask for details and I always forget. Is anyone familiar with the details and necessary incantations & voodoo dances?

Milu · 06-27-2003, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Isabo
I always mean to ask for details and I always forget.

That second bottle of wine will do it to you every time!

Nader · 06-27-2003, 02:58 AM

I second the fast-food coffee. It's cheap and hits the spot, especially when it's early in the A.M., and it's accompanied by a McGriddle sandwich and a patty of hashbrown. Mmm. The McGriddle sandwich deserves it's own post, so I'm off to start one.

Isabo · 06-27-2003, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nader
I second the fast-food coffee. It's cheap and hits the spot, especially when it's early in the A.M., and it's accompanied by a McGriddle sandwich and a patty of hashbrown. Mmm. The McGriddle sandwich deserves it's own post, so I'm off to start one.

Some people sure know how to live!

tabs · 06-27-2003, 07:00 AM

Hmmmm...maybe I'll just cancel that order for that machine, I don't think so.....Ya see I like to cook, I like good food...but I'm not an epicurian snob either....I don't go to expensive restruants....I like good quality things...thus my Love of the early Porsches, Porter Blanchard and Alan Adler handmade Sterling silver, Kindel and Baker Furniture, Anysley China, Waterford Crystal and Salvatore Expresso machines.. Oh and I cook real well....nobody turns down an invitation to my house for dinner...it usually takes me 2 days to do a dinner, and I make everything from scratch... I even have a piece of Columbo Stille furniture Isabo....located in Roma...

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by jyl
First, Peets Coffee beans - it's our local Berkeley stuff.

Word. My favorite was Spinelli, but after they were purchased by Tullys is just wasn't the same. We go out of our way to buy Peets. Major Dickason is our favorite blend.

As for a machine, we've had good luck with one of these:
http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/francis/x1.htm

Signal orange I believe...

tabs · 01:14 AM

Now what about Coffee grinders...the mini Mazzer seems to be the one...I keep reading the reviews on these various machines....and the thing that strikes me is that so and so would say they owned a cheaper machine and were so much happier with the more expensive machines that they bought....the Salvatore by the description presented by WLL seems to stand out..and the reviews are glowing as to it's operation and quality... So while the price is high... I think it is better in the long run to buy a quality product. Now for toasters on the other hand I say buy the cheapest...$8.60 Toaster from Walmart...the reason being the quality is allready in the bread and the toasting doesn't improve the quality of the bread whereas with coffee you afre making it, therefore the process influences the quality of the product you make.

Doug Zielke · 06-28-2003, 07:06 AM

Mrs. Z found a (cheep) manual grinder in a old-time Italian housewares store here in town. She says it works just fine, but the crunching noise it makes scares our cats.

....it's called a "Lavazzo".