Paint and bodywork thread:

[speeder]

I know that there is an excellent forum here for paint and body but I wonder if it would be ok to also have a general thread for idiots, (me), who are rank beginners and want to learn how to prep and paint cars? I know that there is a lot of knowledge and experience here on OT.

I plan on also asking questions on the other forum but this might be a better place for the old, "this is a football" type questions that I need answers for. I think that I've asked a couple of times before and gotten advice on what type of spray gun and compressor I would need to start out but I can't find the thread. I've watched YT videos and I really want to learn how to paint, I think I could become good at it. I'll never know if I don't try.

I have access to a booth to rent in LA but need to learn a lot first. I have a general sense of bodywork and getting a car straight before paint, I'll start off with a question about proper substrate; when is it better to leave some factory finish on and when is it better to sand/strip down to bare metal? Is it always better to start w bare metal? I've heard that the factory underlying primer on many cars is superior to whatever you would be using...not sure where and when that is true. I'm dealing right now with 1980s and '90s Mercedes-Benz cars, so the factory primer and paint was excellent.

I'll post pics of the cars.

[masraum]

Following. This should be an informative thread, I suspect.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

1. What grit sandpaper to use on primer coat before paint job?
2. Is Acrylic Enamel best for fiberglass & plastic parts?
3. Never done a clear coat, always just paint, give me some tips.

My 911 race car is going back to the street in AZ.

[908/930]

I'm not a pro, but for 80's german cars I would not go down to metal unless battling rust, pretty sure original metal was zinc coated prior to primer, at least on higher end cars.

[908/930]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

1. What grit sandpaper to use on primer coat before paint job?
2. Is Acrylic Enamel best for fiberglass & plastic parts?
3. Never done a clear coat, always just paint, give me some tips.

My 911 race car is going back to the street in AZ.

It has been a while but I normally sanded hardened primer 320-400. Depending on paint used they will specify.

Look into urethane paint and likely need to add flex agent to it for the plastic parts.

Will this need to be repaired frequently? Not sure base coat clear coat is the way to go.

[speeder]

100% original paint from 1985 so no collision or rust repair ever but paint is absolutely shot. This is the ultimate starting point for a refinish restoration because of all the straight metal, (with exception of dent on drivers door), and original primer underneath:




EDIT: As I look at the photos, I remember that the trunk lid looks like it may have been repainted at some point but the rest of the car is identically faded paint on all panels.

[Bill Douglas]

That's one of my hobbies. You can learn a lot from these guys https://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5

I've done a few day classes at at body shop supplies place. All I can suggest without going into too much detail is find a good paint supplier and use their products and stick with PPG or who ever. Don't mix and match brands and don't buy cheap paints.

A largish compressor with a VERY good desiccant filter, and Devilbiss or Iwata spray gun. And practice painting old steel filing cabinets. The recycling centers are fairly much giving the cabinets away so it's an easy flat surface to practice on.

Most of all it sounds fun what you are doing.

[908/930]

Yes a Desiccant dryer or better is required. On that 280ce door dent, depending what body filler you use it could require it to go to metal, never liked doing that. Find some thick neoprene foam rubber to use as a block for wet sanding the curved body panels and creases, don't just use your fingers.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 908/930

Yes a Desiccant dryer or better is required. On that 280ce door dent, depending what body filler you use it could require it to go to metal, never liked doing that. Find some thick neoprene foam rubber to use as a block for wet sanding the curved body panels and creases, don't just use your fingers.

Thanks, that's the kind of info I'm looking for. The local trade school is right down the street from where I work on my cars and they teach auto body and paint but I don't have the time or bandwidth to dedicate a year or two of being in class. I've reached out to at least one painter I know to instruct me for pay, that's a possibility.

The door dent is significant; not sure if it happened from the door over extending but that is what it looks like. I was interested in getting one of those pullers where you braise(?) a small rod to the sheet metal and then use a slide hammer to pull it out. I saw a video once of a person using several at once and a bridge contraption that allowed them all to be pulled along the line of the dent. If I can find it, I'll post here. It seems like dents like to be pulled out as opposed to hammered or pushed out? Does anyone know about this? Obviously, sometimes getting behind a dent is not practical or possible.

[A930Rocket]

^^^ The dent puller that uses the spot welded rods is the way to go. It’ll take some practice to get used to it. Harbor Freight has them.

[908/930]

How hard is it to find a straight door? Is the front section with the hinges bent?

Doing a good spray job on a car will require some practice, just gun setup and understanding how much paint needs to go on. But can always sand it down and polish or respray.


One of the best home paint jobs was a friends 1968 Olds Toronado, he was T boned and he purchased the wreck back from insurance, straightened the roof, floor and quarter panel, found a door and repainted the car using a brush with many coats of lacquer and wet sand between coats. The car won car shows after that.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 908/930

How hard is it to find a straight door? Is the front section with the hinges bent?

Doing a good spray job on a car will require some practice, just gun setup and understanding how much paint needs to go on. But can always sand it down and polish or respray.


One of the best home paint jobs was a friends 1968 Olds Toronado, he was T boned and he purchased the wreck back from insurance, straightened the roof, floor and quarter panel, found a door and repainted the car using a brush with many coats of lacquer and wet sand between coats. The car won car shows after that.

I actually have a line on a straight door for a reasonable price, that's probably the way to go but it would really feel like an accomplishment to repair this one. The hinge area is ok, the damage is right behind it and in a difficult place where it could only be pulled out, not pushed or hammered. I'll post some pics shortly when I go by the shop.

I have some experience spraying architectural finishes and maybe I'm over confident but think that I would learn to spray cars quickly. We'll see. Mostly, I need a lot of instruction on equipment and materials, etc.

[KNS]

Question for those in the know:

If I had a small section that needed some color and then clear to be repainted on a fender, is blending a bad idea? I hear that eventually the blend line will eventually fail.

Many years ago on my 911SC I had a shop repair the lower windshield corners that had a couple small rust spots. The match and blend was perfect and it was hard to tell where the new and old paint met. The above area on the fender is a little bit bigger area but far smaller than doing the whole fender.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by 908/930

How hard is it to find a straight door? Is the front section with the hinges bent?

Doing a good spray job on a car will require some practice, just gun setup and understanding how much paint needs to go on. But can always sand it down and polish or respray.


One of the best home paint jobs was a friends 1968 Olds Toronado, he was T boned and he purchased the wreck back from insurance, straightened the roof, floor and quarter panel, found a door and repainted the car using a brush with many coats of lacquer and wet sand between coats. The car won car shows after that.

I’ve seen some brush painted cars that were amazing, but it takes forever compared to spraying.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by KNS

Question for those in the know:

If I had a small section that needed some color and then clear to be repainted on a fender, is blending a bad idea? I hear that eventually the blend line will eventually fail.

Many years ago on my 911SC I had a shop repair the lower windshield corners that had a couple small rust spots. The match and blend was perfect and it was hard to tell where the new and old paint met. The above area on the fender is a little bit bigger area but far smaller than doing the whole fender.

You can use blending thinners for this and it won't fail.

If it's the front fender I'd base color the repair area then clear the whole fender. And polish the side (or rest of) of the car so the shine all looks the same.

[Superman]

Body/paint is a black art, meaning that we don't know how they do it and will probably never know. My 911 got a pretty good dent at the a-pillar/passenger side door. Our local maestro fixed that and I paid him for a day or two to make the rest of the car match his repair work. The car had been poorly repainted years ago. There were scratches and cracks and orange peel and plenty of eyesore white primer patches showing, particularly on the hood (car is very dark brown (Mocha). Some primer patches were small. Others were an inch or more. It was a mess. When the car came back to me, it looked like a show car. Still does.

This same guy took a badly wrecked black 911 Turbo (practically wadded into a ball) and made it look new. His work will fool concourse judges into thinking "all original preservation." His 356 Speedster is the most beautiful you will ever see.

Me? I can barely use a rattle can.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Measuring the thickness of the paint is a means of determining repair boundaries.
I couldn't see it at any angle or lighting but I could measure the blend line for my paint repair done in a certified Porsche repair shop.
OEM paint job is around .003 thick is my understanding?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Measuring the thickness of the paint is a means of determining repair boundaries.
I couldn't see it at any angle or lighting but I could measure the blend line for my paint repair done in a certified Porsche repair shop.
OEM paint job is around .003 thick is my understanding?

Not an expert but from watching a lot of BaT auctions with paint readings, I'd say that most cars vary between .004 and .006 for factory paint, depending on top or side surfaces, etc..

[Seahawk]

Denis, if you don't mind, I'd like to stick this thread while I still can. Great info that need a few weeks of stick time.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Denis, if you don't mind, I'd like to stick this thread while I still can. Great info that need a few weeks of stick time.

For sure, as long as the replies keep coming!