Farkin' dry weather kills plumbing!

[masraum]

Summer 2022 and and 2023 we had very dry weather. Our ground is primarily clay, so changes in water content cause a LOT of movement. Those previous 2 summers, we had at least 7-8 breaks in our plumbing due to ground movement.

This year, we had a great amount of rain, fairly normal amounts, and nice and evenly spread out... until the end of Aug. We have had very little rain (0.18") since the end of Aug along with very high heat. THose two things combined to dry crap out.

We woke up with no water this morning. It was fairly easy to find the break.

You can see the repair from one of the previous breaks. The 90º elbow broke, and was replaced. Now I'm wishing they'd used another PVC elbow...



If it was in buried pvc which is what most of the other breaks have been, I'd have fixed it. But I'm not sure what's going on at the top of the well, if things there are different. Our usual plumber (who's on his way to Colorado) said that the pipe for a well is not the usual schedule 40, and he'd recommend having a well service co fix the issue. I called one that said "Monday". I texted another who was in a deer stand. I texted him back when the other place said Mon, and he said "we can come this afternoon."

[Baz]

and he said "we can come this afternoon."

No sense in offering advice if you have someone in the business coming.

But....don't see a broken 90....but I wonder if that's a nipple that broke on top there.

PVC nipple?

If so, replace with galvanized version and that should do it. Also wouldn't hurt to brace or support that pipe somehow. Maybe a 4x4 post & strapping?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Baz

No sense in offering advice if you have someone in the business coming.

But....don't see a broken 90....but I wonder if that's a nipple that broke on top there.

PVC nipple?

If so, replace with galvanized version and that should do it. Also wouldn't hurt to brace or support that pipe somehow. Maybe a 4x4 post & strapping?

Yes, I believe the top (cap/reducer/seal) on the well has either a PVC nipple that broke. But the plumber said that the PVC used on wells is different than what you'd get at a hardware store. He was just looking at a photo, likely on his phone while he was traveling to another state, so I don't know how closely he looked.

I think our well may be a bit different, but it's in roughly the same position as the nipple in this photo that passes through the seal. I don't want to remove the seal.


This is what broke last time. They replaced the broken PVC 90º elbow with a bronze elbow. If they'd put another pvc elbow in, that probably would have broken and I'd be able to replace it myself. But since they went with bronze, it moved the failure point.

[GH85Carrera]

Our "soil" is pure gumbo clay if wet and brick like if dry. Just clean out the organic material (roots) and we could make bricks.

When we first moved in, I realized we really needed a sprinkler system., Our area of town was near the end of the line for city water. We had poor water pressure, and a lawn tractor did not spin fast enough to move forward. So I put in a sprinkler system myself. Since those days the city has upgraded the water lines and the pressure is pretty good noow.

I had a water well drilled just to water the yard. It was a real chore to trench up the space for the pipes. After 25 years, except for replacing a few heads, the system has been flawless. The water well was drilled 240 feet, and the 1.5 HP 22 pump is at 200 feet. With the regular watering the ground is fairly stable. Our house has not moved, and we don't have issues with broken pipes.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Our "soil" is pure gumbo clay if wet and brick like if dry. Just clean out the organic material (roots) and we could make bricks.

I had a water well drilled just to water the yard. It was a real chore to trench up the space for the pipes. After 25 years, except for replacing a few heads, the system has been flawless. The water well was drilled 240 feet, and the 1.5 HP 22 pump is at 200 feet. With the regular watering the ground is fairly stable. Our house has not moved, and we don't have issues with broken pipes.

THey call the soil around Houston, the same, "gumbo". Ours, here farther west, is still mostly clay. We do live in a region called "blackland prairie" because the soil in this area is very dark, but still mostly clay.

Yeah, we don't water. the lawn. We'd probably have to water a couple of acres to keep our pipes safe. And while we wouldn't be paying for water, we would be paying for the power (and causing wear on the pump). I've called a plumber out to fix 2 of the issues that we had (now 3) and fixed the rest myself. It's usually just darn inconvenient.

The guys came and fixed it. Actually, the missus and I were inside and I thought I heard a noise, so I looked out the window to see if the guys had arrived. I didn't initially see them because there wasn't a truck in the driveway. Turns out they already had the truck at the well, and were actually done with the repair. They were just wrapping things up. They discovered that the bladder in the pressure tank must have died this year, so they'll be back this week to replace the pressure tank. In the mean time, We've got water.

Their fix should give us more flex in the future.

[Baz]

Looks great, Steve.....glad it worked out for ya!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Baz

Looks great, Steve.....glad it worked out for ya!

THey did tell me that it was just a sch80 nipple, but that it could potentially drop the pump which could be bad. I've gotten reasonably decent at fixing PVC breaks, but I'm glad I didn't need to tackle this one.

[dad911]

Looks like pipe in trench settled and pulled on the 90 to me. I've seen underground electric lines do the same and pull the meter pan right off the house.

Smart the way they fixed it with a loop.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by dad911

Looks like pipe in trench settled and pulled on the 90 to me. I've seen underground electric lines do the same and pull the meter pan right off the house.

Smart the way they fixed it with a loop.

Yep. That's more or less what happened. The funny thing is that it's barely under ground, maybe for 12" or so, just enough to go to the pump house which is right next to it.



The loop is something that the plumber recommended that should be done where we've had to repair breaks in the line under ground, but the last time he fixed this same spot, it wasn't him, but was his helper. The loop seems to bounce around a bit when the pump cycles on/off. I will ask them about that, maybe some bracing of some sort to keep it from bouncing, but not so rigid that it causes stress.

[Magyar Kiwi]

Hi
That repair looks like a huge improvement on the previous mess.
If it happens again a U shaped loop of flexible pipe, (braided stainless steel type) would be a good fix.
Cheers

[Baz]

Originally Posted by masraum

-snip-
maybe some bracing of some sort to keep it from bouncing, but not so rigid that it causes stress.

Great idea!!

[Bill Douglas]

And the new bladder in the pressure tank will make life a LOT easier for the pump.

[john70t]

Needs a check valve? Clogged foot valve? Need model 30 domestic expansion tank where pipe enters the house? What causes it?
https://www.plumbingzone.com/threads/water-hammer-on-well-pump.13064/

Expanding joints etc:
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/pipe-vibration-eliminators/

[A930Rocket]

Can you add a loop of flexible pipe to prevent future breaks? We used to do that, when we built houses on basements. We knew the ground would settle around the house, and the loop where it goes into the house, prevented pipes from breaking.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by masraum

THey call the soil around Houston, the same, "gumbo". Ours, here farther west, is still mostly clay. We do live in a region called "blackland prairie" because the soil in this area is very dark, but still mostly clay.

Yeah, we don't water. the lawn. We'd probably have to water a couple of acres to keep our pipes safe. And while we wouldn't be paying for water, we would be paying for the power (and causing wear on the pump). I've called a plumber out to fix 2 of the issues that we had (now 3) and fixed the rest myself. It's usually just darn inconvenient.

The guys came and fixed it. Actually, the missus and I were inside and I thought I heard a noise, so I looked out the window to see if the guys had arrived. I didn't initially see them because there wasn't a truck in the driveway. Turns out they already had the truck at the well, and were actually done with the repair. They were just wrapping things up. They discovered that the bladder in the pressure tank must have died this year, so they'll be back this week to replace the pressure tank. In the mean time, We've got water.

Their fix should give us more flex in the future.

What kind of voodoo magic are they using where the PVC joins that metal T? I don't see a 1" MPT adapter. It looks like it's just glued into the metal T.

I'da probably popped one of these in. https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ss-hose-braid-w-male-npt-nipple-1x8?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvpy5BhDTARIsAHSilynk0g2mjXK_sMqYKb2J FlyoW8sx_hEJp0MMfJZ4gs6UhEntUOfceO0aAsV8EALw_wcB
But then again, I'm not a plumber. I didn't have enough crack showing so they wouldn't license me. Picked a bad day to not wear a thong.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

What kind of voodoo magic are they using where the PVC joins that metal T? I don't see a 1" MPT adapter. It looks like it's just glued into the metal T.

I'da probably popped one of these in. https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ss-hose-braid-w-male-npt-nipple-1x8?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvpy5BhDTARIsAHSilynk0g2mjXK_sMqYKb2J FlyoW8sx_hEJp0MMfJZ4gs6UhEntUOfceO0aAsV8EALw_wcB
But then again, I'm not a plumber. I didn't have enough crack showing so they wouldn't license me. Picked a bad day to not wear a thong.

THat's a good point. I'm not sure. I know that the nipple under the T is threaded, but the bit coming out of the T away from the well. It must be threaded. Maybe the well guys have a way to thread sch80? No idea, but it's holding. We usually have ~60psi, so I think if it wasn't threaded, it would blow out. When they come back, if I remember and get the opportunity, I'll ask them about that.

[oldE]

Steve, I look at that and can hardly believe my eyes, then I remember where you live. Up here in the "frozen North ", a hole is drilled through the casing about 4 feet below grade and a pitless fitting is installed. The pipe from the submersible pump clips into the fitting with an O ring and the pipe to the house is a minimum of 3 feet below grade. 24 years (knock on wood) and no problems.
Thanks for the look at other people's problems.

Best
Les

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

What kind of voodoo magic are they using where the PVC joins that metal T? I don't see a 1" MPT adapter. It looks like it's just glued into the metal T.

I'da probably popped one of these in. https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ss-hose-braid-w-male-npt-nipple-1x8?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvpy5BhDTARIsAHSilynk0g2mjXK_sMqYKb2J FlyoW8sx_hEJp0MMfJZ4gs6UhEntUOfceO0aAsV8EALw_wcB
But then again, I'm not a plumber. I didn't have enough crack showing so they wouldn't license me. Picked a bad day to not wear a thong.

I went out and took a peak today, there are definitely 2 spots where the sch80 is threaded (the 2 ends of the new "U" at the T and coupler).

I'm guessing they have dies for threading it.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by oldE

Steve, I look at that and can hardly believe my eyes, then I remember where you live. Up here in the "frozen North ", a hole is drilled through the casing about 4 feet below grade and a pitless fitting is installed. The pipe from the submersible pump clips into the fitting with an O ring and the pipe to the house is a minimum of 3 feet below grade. 24 years (knock on wood) and no problems.
Thanks for the look at other people's problems.

Best
Les

Yep, not much concern with freezing here. Our pipes are probably 10-12" down when they are buried. During our "snowmaggedon" where we had snow and single digit temps in Feb of 2021, we did have a break inside the pump house. I don't think it would have broken, but we had a 2hr power outage. There was a halogen work lamp in the pump house keeping things warm. It broke just before the pressure tank.

Since then, I've added a hot wire to that section of the line and insulation. I normally have the bit that you see insulated in the winter too. I'll probably do something a bit more for the future now that there's more line above ground.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by masraum

I went out and took a peak today, there are definitely 2 spots where the sch80 is threaded (the 2 ends of the new "U" at the T and coupler).

I'm guessing they have dies for threading it.

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.... and if ya tell my nephews I called em monkeys I'll delete this comment so there no proof! Never knew there was PVC that could be threaded.