The $293,000 Model 70

[Jeff Higgins]

Just sold at the Rock Island auction, a Model 70 Winchester. Made in 1949 and engraved by Alden George Ulrich, the last of the Ulrich line who had been factory engravers since his grandfather. Not altogether that fancy, but tastefully done.



To me, more than anything else, this represents the wretched excess into which high dollar collecting has descended. There is absolutely no way on God's green earth this thing is worth even a fraction of that. Just obscene. This has, of course, infected almost everything "collectible", including our cars. Just far too many people out there with way, way too much disposable income and only looking to show off to one another. They are ruining everything collectible.

[vash]

geez. I bet my M70 is worth south of $500. hahha..

mine is beat.

[HobieMarty]

Wonder what an old Winchester pump 12 guage from the 20s or 30s is worth?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Rick Lee]

I got my M70 for free from a retired LEO. It's a very nice rifle, but I wouldn't pay big money for it.

[gsxrken]

I read the title and thought “Damn, that’s a lot for a 1970 911”. Clicked in and it’s for a rifle? Insane and I agree.

It’s amazing to realize that the concept of “collectable” really only blossomed during our lifetimes. Guys trading in Shelby Mustangs for station wagons used to be a thing. Now our 911’s going for six figures, a nice vintage bench vise goes for $700, some guitars sold at garage sales in the 70s are now $50,000 etc. It’s crazy and it typically knocks out the folks who liked them / used them before they got out of reach.

[pwd72s]

Ken summed it up well. But then, I figure we who used and like them, whatever it was, are the real winners. Those spending boucoup bucks and then not using these items are the losers.

For what it's worth, I'm still using my dad's old Wilton vise...no warranty dating on it's slide, so I'm guessing he bought it as WWII surplus. Scratched up & beaten on, it still functions well.

[craigster59]

I know it probably doesn't matter much, but what caliber?

[pwd72s]

I'd guess 30-'06.

[Jeff Higgins]

It's chambered in .220 Swift.

Pre-'64 Model 70's in .220 Swift fetch a premium as it is. Winchester discontinued the chambering and replaced it with the .225 Winchester in 1964, the same year they radically redesigned the Model 70 as a whole. Today, the .225 Winchester is all but forgotten, and in the mid 1990's Winchester reintroduced the "pre-'64" Model 70.

The Model 70 is, of course, "The Rifleman's Rifle", probably the most highly regarded bolt gun of all time. I'm not really a bolt gun guy, but I do own one as pictured, made in 1953, chambered in .30-'06. I also have a mid 1990's "pre-'64" chambered in .375 H&H. Both are excellent hunting rifles.

On top of those two, I still own my first hunting rifle bought with my own money, a post-'64 chambered in .30-'06, purchased in 1980. It, too, is an excellent hunting rifle. It is really no different than many other manufacturers' offerings, being a push feed, plunger ejector, bolt face mounted extractor design. All modern Remington bolt actions beginning with the Model 700's, Savages of various models, Browning A-Bolts, Weatherbys, and on and on all share these features. It's not that any of these features are inherently bad, it's more that the Model 70 appeared much more cheaply made by way of pressed rather than cut checkering, free floated barrels with huge gaps to the forearm, and other visual clues just said "cheap". The one I bought in 1980 had machine cut checkering, no visible forearm gap, a nice matte finish, and other improvements over the first ones in the '60's. A pretty darn good rifle, really.

None of these rifles have ever given me any trouble, much less failed me in any way. They have all been out in some really bad weather for extended periods of time, have all seen some pretty rough use, and have all functioned flawlessly. The Model 70 certainly deserves its reputation, but this sale is just in another world. One unencumbered by reality.

[Por_sha911]

Besides the stupidity of the money spent on 'collector' pieces. I find it sad that beautiful old cars and guns are locked away in garages and safes instead of being enjoyed for their intended purpose. I understand that there are some things that are just too rare and valuable to be driven to Wallyworld but to never be used seems like a waste.

When I bought my `87 in 2003 it only had 34k on the odometer and was in super pristine condition. Even though it wasn't special as `87 911s went, I didn't want to drive it and ruin the value (since I am not wealthy and it was going to be my one and old Porsche). After owning it for half a year I realized I am not going to just wash it and put it back in the garage. I wanted to enjoy the car. In the next 15 years I put 70k on the car and have never regretted it.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Just sold at the Rock Island auction, a Model 70 Winchester. Made in 1949 and engraved by Alden George Ulrich, the last of the Ulrich line who had been factory engravers since his grandfather. Not altogether that fancy, but tastefully done.
To me, more than anything else, this represents the wretched excess into which high dollar collecting has descended. There is absolutely no way on God's green earth this thing is worth even a fraction of that. Just obscene. This has, of course, infected almost everything "collectible", including our cars. Just far too many people out there with way, way too much disposable income and only looking to show off to one another. They are ruining everything collectible.

Why do you care if some guy scratched his name on the side of a gun?

Isn't the point of being "collectible" for an object to be worth far more than its intrinsic value? Andy Warhol sold pictures of soup cans for millions. The market is what it is.

I own an OG (original German) Porsche Speedster. There are thousands of faster replica Speedsters out there with more powerful 2500 cc VW engines. Only one of my heirs is interested in my car as an historical artifact that he wants to drive. The rest are only interested in the cash they can get on BaT.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Ken summed it up well. But then, I figure we who used and like them, whatever it was, are the real winners.

Hell yes! I paid $3k for my Speedster in 1974, drove the wheels off of it through snow, rain, and many, many rallies and autocrosses. I've had a blast owing it for 50 years. No subsequent owner is going to enjoy it the way I have.

[LWJ]

My son just asked me this week what we commonly use today will be collectible.

Yes. It is a cultural disease. No idea what will be hot in the future.

[DWBOX2000]

Too little cool stuff, too many rich folk.

[The Synergizer]

I have a model 70 I'll sell for $292,000

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by LWJ

My son just asked me this week what we commonly use today will be collectible.

Yes. It is a cultural disease. No idea what will be hot in the future.

If my name had been Lamont Trump .... my dad & I would be filthy rich

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Why do you care if some guy scratched his name on the side of a gun?

Well, I don't. I'm not sure where you get that impression. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Oh, and no one scratched their name on the side of a gun - this rifle has some simple, elegant, tasteful engraving, as did many custom ordered Model 70 rifles.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Isn't the point of being "collectible" for an object to be worth far more than its intrinsic value? Andy Warhol sold pictures of soup cans for millions. The market is what it is.

Yes, that is the entire point. For articles that are actually "collectible". Winchester made (according to the internet) about 581,000 "pre-'64" Model 70 rifles, and over two million total up to today. Not many were ordered with engraving and fancy wood. "Standard" grade rifles are worth maybe $1,000 - $1,500 today. My point is that this exorbitant sale price is so far out of bed that there is clearly something else going on here.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I own an OG (original German) Porsche Speedster. There are thousands of faster replica Speedsters out there with more powerful 2500 cc VW engines. Only one of my heirs is interested in my car as an historical artifact that he wants to drive. The rest are only interested in the cash they can get on BaT.

And while that is a very cool old car, it is, in the end, a pretty schitty vehicle by modern standards. A very fun little car for an enthusiast like us, one that used to kind of "fly under the RADAR" so guys like us could afford and enjoy them.

The collectors, who could care less what it is - rifle or old German car - have ruined too many formerly accessible items that only true enthusiasts even knew about, much less cared about. Collectors do not care about the item itself. They only care about its "value" within their own ranks.

That is why I care.

[911 Rod]

Has it ever been fired?