All these new super cars crashing is similar to 40+ years ago when the Military had a big problem with young guys crashing new motorcycles.
At the time Motorcycle shops were advertising easy financing for E2 and up on new fast motorcycles.
Zero experience first time cycle riders were getting slaughtered.
The Military requires riders now to complete cycle safety classes before being allowed to ride on base.

When I see a car that can go 180mph I check to see if it was designed to survive a crash at that speed.
Imho no DOT legal car is designed to survive a high speed crash on track or on a tree lined highway.

No car at any speed on ACH is going to be safe flying off a cliff or into a tree.

With age comes the cage and perhaps a race weekend on the track...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734798076.jpg

And there's no way the posts I referenced could have disappeared,
either edited or deleted. :rolleyes:

Jerry, you know me - I'm absolutely one of those "take it to the track" guys. I am your "most of us". I agree with everything you have to say.

It's difficult to convey exactly what I'm trying to say in one of our typical little "sound bites". I agree that this guy needs to "take it to the track", that he needs to back off a bit from his car's capabilities when he is on public roads. Absolutely. I'm in full agreement.

I guess what Im getting at is this: how do we know he hasn't done all of that? How do we know that he is not an accomplished driver, with a good deal of track experience? Maybe even instructor level at the DE events, maybe even with a race car, like you?

We don't. We are making a lot of assumptions. Maybe another driver, coming down the hill, overcooked that corner and was in this guys's lane? Could there have been an animal in the road? Could there have been sand and gravel drug onto the road from the shoulder by someone? We just don't know.

The assumption seems to be that he is a part of this new YouTube band of idiots, pushing the limits on public roads just for clicks and subscribers. Maybe, like our guy up here who just wound up in the Snoqualmie River, he had just picked the car up at the dealership and really did have no idea what he was doing. We don't know.

All I'm doing is suggesting that our community cut him a bit of slack. Benefit of the doubt. He's in enough trouble as it is. Hopefully he learned something.


Yup, I remember those days. One personal moment for me was seeing a group of fresh recruits, likely just home from boot camp, in our local bike shop. They were drooling over the then latest liter bike. A salesman walked up, tossing a tennis ball up and down. When he got close, he tossed it into this group. One of the kids caught it.

Salesman: "I see you have the reflexes to ride a machine like this... How can I help you?"

I wanted to punch the guy.

My thoughts exactly. I look at these modern day "track cars" as produced not only by Porsche, but many others, and just pucker right up. They really have no more crash protection than my humble little '72 track rat. Roll bar, seat, harness, HANS, and helmet.

I'm at the point, after 25 years and countless track days in that car, that I think about these things more and more. The best I can do on any of our local tracks is maybe 130 into turn one at Pacific Raceways. I'm schittin' myself if I think anything in my car would save me if I lost it there. These guys, in their modern track cars, top 180 through there. Which is probably immaterial - there are no degrees of "dead".

I remember years ago attending an ALMS event in Portland. Brock Yates was the guest announcer. During a lull in the activities, he would tell his tall tales over the PA. Pretty fun, really. At one point he told the crowd that if they wanted to see the fastest GT cars at the event, they needed to go out into the spectator's car corral. He explained that the GT and GTS cars on track were very carefully limited by the sanctioning body, knowing that people can only race them safely at a certain pace. The cars in the car corral had no such limitations. Many examples, even then, doubled the horsepower of the GT and GTS class race cars. And it's only gotten "worse" (or "better" depending on perspective).

The good thing about using street tires on the track is they don't get as much grip and less likely to do a roll over such as above.

Also easier to manage the car for us non-racing types. An earlier and more controllable slide.

Guys...

For those of you with short memories apparently, THIS is the post that motivated Red's rant. And I felt exactly the same when I read this post.

As a MC rider I am terrified riding our magnificent back roads when a car club is active. Seen far too many jokers blow a curve and end up in the opposing ditch. Yes same can be said for MC group rides, many I have participated in ended up with a few folks off the road. I ride with the SD BMW club now, no crashing but insane riding skills and fast pace.

That said the PCar and exotic groups tend to keep it clean, the Asian car clubs not as much.

Yep nothing to offer for this thread other than please be safe.

Here is an example of the kind of YouTube hero we've been discussing:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bzud0S83nks?si=dmGFcrGAzHae2jrE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^
That crash was as far from 'unimaginable' as I can think something can be.

MaxWrist just standing around with a bunch of cops. I'd think if that was me, and I had a history of posting vids like this I'd probably be in handcuffs by now.

I liked this comment:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734826249.jpg

Let's just say "Max Wrist" isn't a guy I'd enjoy sharing a beer with. If he's as good as he thinks he is, he should start a go fund me and enter the Isle of Mann thing...(edit) I have a feeling that the riders there would show him he's not as skilled as he thinks he is.

<iframe width="1536" height="864" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HioevcpbbI0" title="New video shows Bellevue crash that killed passenger; driver still wanted by police" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^ That's quite a tale.

I just didn't read that as a call to action for regulation.

I do and thanks for the reminder to not assume the worst. Hope you are doing well. I'm in the process of removing the roll bar from my 911 and putting it back to a more street friendly interior. Sold the race car this year. My track days and racing are a nice memory. I'll count myself lucky I never had a big off. After two deaths of way more experienced drivers than me at SOVREN events and just other "life and medical" stuff, it was time to be done.

I feel sorry for anyone coming the other way on this road or the famous Mullholland Drive.

I hear you, Jerry. I think I'm arriving at the same conclusion. After darn near 25 years of track fun, I'm kinda reaching the end. I've learned everything I think I can learn. I've had some close calls, but never anything that damaged the car. I have friends that have not been so lucky.

I started with my humble dead stock '72 "T", with its thundering 140hp, no sway bars, squishy soft suspension, and SC seats. Over my early years on the track, I set out to build what to me was the "ultimate" track car. With my two son's help, I think we succeeded. 3.0 liter twin plugged MFI motor, 22/29mm torsion bars, 22mm sways, Carrera brakes, Guard limited slip, twin ST style oil coolers, race seats, roll bar, harnesses, and completely gutted with no sound insulation, under 2,200 pounds. Loud, raw, rough as hell.

Now I'm wondering what I was thinking. Granted, I had a lot of fun over the years. Back in the late 2000-ought's, I could harass poorly driven GT3's. Now I can't keep up with the new girl in her base model Boxster. Granted, that's not the point, but I now spend most of my laps giving point-bys. I feel like I should just bolt a mannequin arm to the outside of the door. I'm constantly off line letting others by.

So my day has come and gone, at least in that car. Sure, I could sell it for enough to buy a GT3 and join that crowd, but I really have no interest. I still thoroughly enjoy my car on those lonely back roads. That, and the memories of those long weekends and nights building it with my two sons are simply not for sale. I just don't enjoy getting in and out of it so much anymore...

So, yeah, "re-civilizing" it, taking some of its rough edges off may very well be in my future. Quiet it down a bit, turn it into more of a GT car as I slide into old age.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734993797.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1734994059.jpg

^point well made.

2003
My ***** girlfriend had me sleeping in the couch so I’d wake up way early. I realized I could ride to newcomb’s ranch and have breakfast, and still get to work on time. I love that road. One of two, maybe three , things I miss about California.

Great corners, good asphalt, friendly camber. Breeds overconfidence. I almost died a bunch of times.

Way more to life than lap times Jeff, and I think you have a great opportunity with your 911. Years ago I bought a somewhat tired SCCA G50 Targa and turned it into a really fun street-able hot rod. There’s a fun confluence point where you can combine street and track and make for a really fun car, particularly when you don’t care about lap times.