What heavy equipment do I need for this job/work?

[masraum]

We have a ravine running through our property. When we moved in, we had a small "pond" on the south side, then there was a 20-30' flat area of grass that was fairly smooth and could be driven across. Then the rest of the property had a smallish "ditch" running through it. The first year or two we had some crazy heavy rains that caused a bunch of erosion so that our flat spot got down to ~10'.

I got a couple of folks out that dig ponds, do earth moving, etc....

What they both said is that if we want to minimize the erosion, what we need to do is smooth out the edges of the current ravine, straighten the ravine as much as possible.

One guy talked about taking out trees, and was going to REALLY flatten/straighten working with 15-20' of hillside. The other guy's plan was essentially the same thing, but much smaller.

The first guy said it would cost $6k, but he was going to go bigger than we wanted. The other guy, we think, wasn't interested in the work. He said "$7k-10k", but then never sent the estimate.

We aren't ready to spend that sort of money. I'm thinking of doing the work myself.

What do you think would be the best equipment for doing the job, a bulldozer, a small excavator, or a track loader?

The red line is roughly the path of the ravine.


This is the recontouring of the ravine that both guys talked about but in different degrees/amounts. I'm thinking 4-8' back from the edge of the ravine and then 1-1.5' vertical.


This is the sort of thing that happens once or twice a year.




You can see from this USGS topographical map, that there's not really anything that we can do about the water or the ravine. The water is going to run.
Our property is south of 90. I included the top half of the screenshot to show that it eventually turns into the "south fork" of Harvey creek


The ravine is 3-6' wide in most places, and 2-3' deep. What would be the best piece of equipment to accomplish what I'd like to accomplish?

Bulldozer, skid steer or excavator

[KFC911]

Having dealt with numerous ditches you could step across decades ago turn into small ravines with small raging creeks ....

You will lose

We had some wicked rains back in '17-18 ... flooding on my properties... like never before.

If you straighten (loosen what Mother has done naturally ... wif the Missus' help NOW )... and don't put rip-rap along the sides.... she doesn't ever lose... I'd quit makin' it worse... but I dunno???

The next "gully washer" is coming.... and bigger than ever

Wimmins...

Steve's Canyon

[oldE]

In answer answer to your question, an excavator cannot be beaten for that kind of work.
Now, as stated above, you will not beat Mother Nature. You would be better off to try to understand the dynamic of the stream. Straighten nothing. That increases velocity which hastens erosion. Think instead about a pond and planting willows to support the soil around the stream bed.

Best
Les

[cabmandone]

First I'd call the local Soil and Water Conservation Service or Farm Service Agency office and see if they can make suggestions for erosion control. They might suggest planting things to help reduce erosion.

On equipment, I don't know much about that stuff.

I'd go with an excavator for this application. You have a blade (preferably a machine with angle blade) that you can push with and you can put a wide ditch bucket on for dipping the banks. I'd want something the size range of a Deere 60G or comparable from other brands. Only reason I'm going "smaller" is for hauling. I'd honestly go with a "midi" which puts you in the 16,000 lb range or higher. As long as you have easy access to both sides or the ditch is dry enough you can actually operate the machine in the ditch to slope the banks, then size and reach become less important. The problem here is, rental is gonna eat up a significant portion of that cost you mention for someone to do it. I'm not sure straightening is a good option (or even if it's allowed)since that's a HUGE endeavor. To do it properly you'd want to have a laser or GPS system to make sure you have proper grade.

What I do each year at my property is walk the ditch and look for any obstructions to flow. You might find that most of your problem isn't even on your property. I cleaned almost the entire length of my ditch leaving obstructions at the top where it enters my property to slow the flow across my property. I virtually eliminated any flooding in low ground just by improving flow across my property.

BTW, I run a brush cutter on my skid steer to clear a path along the ditch for servicing the ditch. Makes life easier brining equipment in when I already have a 6-8' service path cleared.

Originally Posted by oldE

Straighten nothing. That increases velocity which hastens erosion. Think instead about a pond and planting willows to support the soil around the stream bed.
Best
Les

Good point right there. I considered digging an overflow pond on my property but after I made sure there was no obstruction to flow I found I didn't need one.

[Tobra]

Plants to hold the soil together and prevent/limit erosion is your answer

[javadog]

Have someone tell you what to do. In general terms, you want to slow the water down and use plants to keep the soil together. You need someone that can walk the property with you, understand the problem and make recommendations. What you do will determine the equipment that you need.

Hire the work done. Dozer and excavator work used to run me $60 and hour per machine (I'm sure it's gone up some since I retired) and the guys I used to use would get more done in an hour than you would in a day. I found it cheaper to do it on a time and materials basis than by bid. I had guys I could trust.

You can find equipment owner/operators everywhere down there.

[unclebilly]

A 160-250 size excavator is what you need - that one in your picture is an underpowered toy. I had one like that for building the septic system for my office. It was terrible and woefully inadequate for what you want to do. Moving dirt alone won’t do it, you need to put big rocks in there once you are done to control erosion (like breakwater rocks).

This is not a sub $10k project to do it right.

Also your photos have no scale apart from the tire tracks and turn around.

[cabmandone]

A 160 to 250 class is overkill for his project. A 14,000 to 18,000 lb machine (60-85 class) would more than do the job.

BTW Steve, when mowing the grass that acts as a filter strip, mow it taller. On my filter strip I was told to mow it no shorter than 6". In my area it was recommended to plant a certain type of grass (I don't recall what) when I finished sloping the banks. There's a guy around here (Liebrecht Manufacturing) that built a waterway ditcher that dresses waterways. It's not their pull behind but a fully self contained unit that actually drives in the ditch and resurfaces it.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by javadog

Dozer and excavator work used to run me $60 and hour per machine (I'm sure it's gone up some since I retired)

and the guys I used to use would get more done in an hour than you would in a day. I found it cheaper to do it on a time and materials basis than by bid. I had guys I could trust.

I won't pull my skid loader onto a job for less than $90 per hour and mostly for the reason you mention in the bold text. I've had guys call me wanting me to cut a driveway. I'll tell them my price and they'll almost always say "I can rent one for $250 for a weekend". I'll typically respond with "so you'll spend about the same in dollars to rent one, plus your time, to do in a weekend what I'll do in a couple hours?" I don't do much customer work simply because I sell equipment and don't want to be seen as competing with the guys I sell to. But my rate is right there with theirs.

The replacement cost of the machine, maintenance, and the skill of the operator aren't cheap these days. I can't do a typical 250 hour service for less than $250 in materials.

[LWJ]

No answers, but some insight.

As said before, don't straighten it. My folks had a cabin on a stream that was "improved" after a big flood in the 1960's. Turned a meandering mountain steam into a flume. You do not want a flume. As suggested, ponds and vegetation to slow and break up the flow.

Also, if you were in Oregon, all sorts of laws dictate wetlands and what you can do to them. No idea about Texas.

Final note, while you will be slow and mostly worthless operating equipment, it really can be fun. Just a thought.

[vash]

not sure about equipment.

but we as a State handle situation like with rock slope protection and planting willows.

if it is big, we build walls, but that is beyond your $cope.

[masraum]

Thanks folks. We have a "pond" of sorts, probably 45-50' long and maybe 15' wide at the widest point. The problem is that after the pond, the erosion was going to eventually link to the pond.

My original plan was to make the pond a little deeper and wider, and then use the dirt that came out of that to fill in where there had been erosion.

The current ditch has lots of saplings in spots (lots of cedar elm) that seem to be holding the ditch together. It's places where the sides are mostly grass where the erosion seems to be the worst.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

First I'd call the local Soil and Water Conservation Service or Farm Service Agency office and see if they can make suggestions for erosion control. They might suggest planting things to help reduce erosion.

That's exactly the kind of thing we want, talk to an expert that can come look and make suggestions based on real knowledge and experience.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by masraum

That's exactly the kind of thing we want, talk to an expert that can come look and make suggestions based on real knowledge and experience.

And the beauty of the SWCS and FSA is, they'll come out for free, assess the problem, and make suggestions.

One thing I'd check is whether this small ditch is part of a larger watershed. If it is, you might get some assistance in addressing the erosion problem.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

And the beauty of the SWCS and FSA is, they'll come out for free, assess the problem, and make suggestions.

One thing I'd check is whether this small ditch is part of a larger watershed. If it is, you might get some assistance in addressing the erosion problem.

The SWCS for Texas is based out of Maine. That seems weird. But there is an FSA in the town just down the road. So that should work out well.

[cabmandone]

^^^ Hope the FSA works our for you! But if it doesn't they should have some good information on who to ask.

[Arizona_928]

Riprap once cleared out. Probably do some erosion control. Straw bale dams, silt fence, rock wattles. Something. Need better pictures.

[juanbenae]

If you are not being consulted and directed as to what material you need to move and put where a bunch of big equipment could create more erosion issues in the future than do good. Hire somebody who knows what's up and it might be as simple as placing some boulders and riprap sized rock in addition to the planting previously suggested.

[KFC911]

Listen to the folks posting here ... jmho

Big trees are great .... small trees (saplings) on the banks are not .... imho. Rip-rap and bushes, grasses, etc. work better.... small saplings in high winds loosen soil around roots... with a water flow .... no bueno.

Don't fight mother nature and make it even worse .... MUCH worse.

Mitigate ... and good luck!

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

A 160 to 250 class is overkill for his project. A 14,000 to 18,000 lb machine (60-85 class) would more than do the job.

It looks to me like there is 275’ of trench to be modified here. There is no scale to any of this so I’m using the road width as a reference.

Assuming each yard has a cross section of 3 square yards of dirt to move (this is a guess), you are looking at close to 900 yards of dirt to move… 60 gravel truck loads.

A 160 excavator is the smallest size excavator I’d use for this… you could do it with one of the toys but you’d be at it for a very long time.

How many yards do you estimate? What are you seeing that I’m not?