Calling all electricians

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 06:48 AM

I have a circuit breaker that keeps tripping. I’ve managed to trace the problem area to my gas fireplace. Talking to the gas fireplace guy, he said it could be either in the fireplace which he could fix or it’s a wiring issue that I need an electrician. So I managed to find the black and white wire that feed the fireplace. A black and white wire feed off function box. They go to outlet in wall. From there they feed three outlets and the fireplace. I managed to get everything working but left one wire disconnected that feeds fireplace. So I then checked the continuity between the outlet and the fireplace black and white wires, continuity is good. My question is does that mean it’s the fireplace or could one of the wires still be causing the circuit to break even though continuity is fine.
Thanks.

masraum · 09-20-2025, 08:00 AM

and you're sure that it's a short and not just a bad breaker?

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 08:05 AM

I replaced breaker. I disconnected black wire going to fireplace. Everything works fine until I connect that wire to circuit. Whole system has been fine for 10+ years.
Thanks for responding.

masraum · 09-20-2025, 08:13 AM

Can you get to where the fireplace is connected to the wiring? From your description, you've got the other end of the wiring disconnected, the end away from the fireplace. If you can get to the end closest to the fireplace, then you can check the wiring between the fireplace and the junction box where all of the wiring for the outlets and fireplace feed from. That feels like the next step.
I think you currently have access to the "*" with one of the wires disconnected, in the diagram below. If you can get access to the "@" in the diagram below, then you can test the wiring between the * and @ and test the wiring of the FP. That would be my next step, to try to get that access.
_____
| box | *=============@ fireplace
-------

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 08:26 AM

Sorry, I’m not explaining correctly. I have access to both ends of the black and white wires. I check continuity on those wires and there is continuity.
The two wires come off the fireplace, go into wall and then reappear in outlet box a few feet away. The black wire was wrapped with 4 other black wires and the white is the same scenario. Either something is happening between the outlet and fireplace or the fireplace itself.
I think I’ll try connecting the wires in out let and disconnect wires from fireplace. Then I’ll try to hook light up to the two wires at the fireplace.

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 08:36 AM

It’s the wire between the outlet and fireplace. I took firplace out of equation so black and white were not connected to anything, hit switch and the circuit tripped.
Not sure how I swap this out.

masraum · 09-20-2025, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

It’s the wire between the outlet and fireplace. I took firplace out of equation so black and white were not connected to anything, hit switch and the circuit tripped.
Not sure how I swap this out.

Yep, that's exactly where I was going. And the frustrating thing is that the wire is probably stapled down to studs along the way. If it was just fished through various openings, you might be able to fish new wire through by connecting it to the old.

I have no experience with trying to replace wire like you're talking about.

Do you have access to the ceiling above? Maybe you could get up in the attic and run new wire from above down to the two spots? Drill a hole above where the FP connects, and feed wire down into the wall. Drill a hole above where the other end of the wire connects to the circuit and feed the wire down to that location and the wire runs through the attic. That seems like the easiest way compared to getting access behind drywall all of the way between the two locations.

Hopefully, someone with a genius idea will come along with a suggestion.

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 08:58 AM

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.
I think I’ll let the electrician handle this. I’m glad I didn’t have fireplace tech come out to tell me fireplace was fine. Probably just saved 300 or more bucks.
Great forum, great people.

greglepore · 09-20-2025, 09:10 AM

You're not looking for continuity. You need a voltmeter and check for resistance between the black and white and black and ground wires when they're NOT hooked to anything in the box where they're fed or at the fireplace end. If the resistance is anything other than infinite, you have a short to neutral or ground, and you're going to have to either live without power to the f/p or pull a new wire somehow.

Zeke · 09-20-2025, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Sorry, I’m not explaining correctly. I have access to both ends of the black and white wires. I check continuity on those wires and there is continuity.
The two wires come off the fireplace, go into wall and then reappear in outlet box a few feet away. The black wire was wrapped with 4 other black wires and the white is the same scenario. Either something is happening between the outlet and fireplace or the fireplace itself.
I think I’ll try connecting the wires in out let and disconnect wires from fireplace. Then I’ll try to hook light up to the two wires at the fireplace.

So far your describing the problem has me scratching my head. But that statement leads me to say (see below).

Quote:

Originally Posted by greglepore

You're not looking for continuity. You need a voltmeter and check for resistance between the black and white and black and ground wires when they're NOT hooked to anything in the box where they're fed or at the fireplace end. If the resistance is anything other than infinite, you have a short to neutral or ground, and you're going to have to either live without power to the f/p or pull a new wire somehow.

Agree with this but going further, if there are 5 blacks and one white (?, or are you saying 5 whites as well?) even in flex conduit, this needs some serious attention to find out what is connected here that requires 4 load wires off a line wire. Very easy to get things crossed up in a deal like this.

@DWBOX2000, If you don't understand simple branch circuits then don't mess with this. A gang like that has to be sorted device by device. It is entirely possible that all devices on this circuit should not be on one breaker. You need to know the current draw of each.

You ask, "My question is does that mean it’s the fireplace or could one of the wires still be causing the circuit to break even though continuity is fine." The answer is absolutely. What is the history here? Things don't work and then suddenly not work w/o a cause.

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 10:05 AM

If infinite means there is a break in the circuit or an open circuit how can there be continuity? Does that just mean there could be a cut in the wire casing that the current now has two paths creating a short?
I think the easiest route is have an electrician either fish and replace existing or run new wires from junction box. That’s the easiest path without cutting open the walls.
Oh, I tugged on the wires from the fireplace end. Zero pull which has me thinking stapled.
Tough week, this and now a cracked toilet drain pipe on top of a know bathroom issue requiring basically a gut job.
Thanks all.

Zeke · 09-20-2025, 11:29 AM

Infinite means just that, open. If both ends are disconnected you should see Ohms when you attach at each end. If you identify each wire and why it is there, that's a start. If you label these and verify each device as working, you're almost there. It's the combination of all those wires in one JB that bothers me.

Or you could determine which wire is the line feeding this bundle and remove one wire at a time to see which one is causing the breaker to open. Worst case is you have to have all devices working the throw the breaker which is a simple overload.

One by one will tell you that there might be a short in just one load circuit. Check the wiring at each device for reverse connections or something touching ground when the connection is closed up.

Is everything grounded either by bare, green or conduit itself? (To code or not, you want to understand how the grounds exist if they do.)

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 12:06 PM

Thanks Zeke. I did exactly what you described. I have one cable (black, white and copper) running from panel to junction box in garage. Those 3 wires from cable connect to four wires each of the same color and then leave junction box. I have identified where each goes. The one cable in question goes to an outlet in my sun room. This ties into three outlets and the fireplace. I tested each individually and it all works fine until I connect the wires in outlet that go to fireplace even though the wires at the fireplace are not connected to anything (I disconnected). It is that cable that is shorting the system. Unfortunately I don’t have that skill to run a new cable. If electrician says wall has to come apart, then I’ll do it myself.
Thanks again.

masraum · 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

it all works fine until I connect the wires in outlet that go to fireplace even though the wires at the fireplace are not connected to anything (I disconnected).

If I understand correctly, you've got the situation that I have rudimentarily drawn below. Wires disconnected at the FP, and wires disconnected at a box with several sets of wires. If you connect the wires to the fireplace in the red circle without connecting the FP, then the break trips. To me that means that you've got a short in the wires in the wall between the FP and the junction box in the red circle. So the short is somewhere in the long red cigar shaped area.

I think you could check for continuity between the wht & blk or wht & gnd or blk & grd in the red circle while leaving the wires disconnected at the FP. My guess is that you'll have continuity between 2 of them that shouldn't have continuity. Maybe someone at some point put a nail or screw in the wall that got into the wiring, and took some time and or movement of the house or wires to eventually short. Maybe a rat chewed a wire somewhere.

Based on my understanding of your description, the short is somewhere in the dotted wires inside the wall.

rwest · rwest's Garage

I always like to do a double check on something like this and would suggest wiring a plug onto the fireplace wiring and then plug it in to an outlet and see if it still trips or if the fireplace works fine.

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Continuity isn’t your problem if something is tripping the breaker. If you have a wire between point A and point C but have a short in between at point B, you will get continuity at A to C AND A to B.
Disconnect one device at a time and try the breaker. Keep doing it until the breaker doesn’t trip anymore. That last device is where the problem is.

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 05:33 PM

Thanks your explanation really helps. Also, I believe the diagram above is dead on. Likely a mouse got in there and chewed the cable.

Zeke · 09-20-2025, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Thanks Zeke. I did exactly what you described. I have one cable (black, white and copper) running from panel to junction box in garage. Those 3 wires from cable connect to four wires each of the same color and then leave junction box. I have identified where each goes. The one cable in question goes to an outlet in my sun room. This ties into three outlets and the fireplace. I tested each individually and it all works fine until I connect the wires in outlet that go to fireplace even though the wires at the fireplace are not connected to anything (I disconnected). It is that cable that is shorting the system. Unfortunately I don’t have that skill to run a new cable. If electrician says wall has to come apart, then I’ll do it myself.
Thanks again.

That sums it up. As @rwest says, determining that the FP is not the culprit you most definitely have a problem just where you say it is. Not all is lost. Working those 3 wires you might find that one is shorted not to others, but to something else. You could cob together 2 out of 3 to make a circuit labeling what you did.

A bare wire as a neutral is a bad idea, don't do that. It would still be interesting to know if it's the hot wire (usually) and why it now is a short. What is the history here? By that I mean can you go back and undo the last thing done?

Also, the fact that you have a JB distributing wires where one feeds the branch that has multiple receptacles AND the FP. I'd be looking hard at that last recep before the FP. With that out of the wall and still hooked up, you may find something out about that black wire leaving that box to the FP. Weird things happen when you shove a device back in a box and close up. I've had many a ground not be pushed far enough in and they barely touch when made up and closed up. If it's in that box, there wil be a sign that it went to ground.

Let's fix this.

DWBOX2000 · 09-20-2025, 06:18 PM

Now that I think about it, it’s the black wire because it trips with the white and black wire disconnnected at the FP. Now whether it’s the black, white or copper, I don’t think it matters since the whole cable would get replaced.
Anyhow, whether I fix or not, I think this saved me some money. I know what needs to be replaced instead of the electrician spending time diagosing.
Considering I will have a plaster coming over to fix my bathroom issues, might make sense for me to just do it. I can hang sheet rock.
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

masraum · 09-21-2025, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Now that I think about it, it’s the black wire because it trips with the white and black wire disconnnected at the FP. Now whether it’s the black, white or copper, I don’t think it matters since the whole cable would get replaced.
Anyhow, whether I fix or not, I think this saved me some money. I know what needs to be replaced instead of the electrician spending time diagosing.
Considering I will have a plaster coming over to fix my bathroom issues, might make sense for me to just do it. I can hang sheet rock.
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

Sounds like you're on track to be back in business.