Property deed question...

[KFC911]

Elderly parents (Mom still of sound mind, Dad can still read, sign his name, etc. and would sign), both will soon be unable to legally sign anything requiring IDs, etc.

Nothing nefarious, no estate issues, etc. ... I'd like (mebbe) to go ahead and just add my name to their deed, for reasons mom understands and she approves. Should have been done years ago... hindsight ... 20-200 .

Pros/cons to simply doing a Quitclaim and adding me?

I'm looking for FREE legal advice from high priced attorneys licensed to practice law in NC btw!

Or anyone else

Thanks!

[cabmandone]

What does adding your name accomplish?

[greglepore]

Adding his name as Joint Tenant with Right of Survivorship avoids the property going through probate.
No downside if no sibs to claim undue influence and no mortgage to deal with. You won't be able to sell the property yourself without their signatures or a declaration of incompetency with you as guardian so long as they're alive though.

Advice from someone who's not a high priced atty anymore...

[id10t]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

What does adding your name accomplish?

I think that depending on the complexity of the estate it can speed up the xfer process and maybe help with taxes. Also sounds like the possibility of the parents not being able to do things like sign for a sale, having him on the title would also allow that a lot easier I think

Mind, I've spend all of 10 minutes at the UF law school and that was looking for a bathroom and vending machine as I was walking across campus one day...

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Adding his name as Joint Tenant with Right of Survivorship avoids the property going through probate.
No downside if no sibs to claim undue influence and no mortgage to deal with. You won't be able to sell the property yourself without their signatures or a declaration of incompetency with you as guardian so long as they're alive though.

Advice from someone who's not a high priced atty anymore...

Originally Posted by id10t

I think that depending on the complexity of the estate it can speed up the xfer process and maybe help with taxes. Also sounds like the possibility of the parents not being able to do things like sign for a sale, having him on the title would also allow that a lot easier I think

Mind, I've spend all of 10 minutes at the UF law school and that was looking for a bathroom and vending machine as I was walking across campus one day...

Depending on where his parents are, meaning if the state they're in allows it, couldn't he do that with with transfer on death? I personally have all my stuff (cars, house, bank accounts)TOD to my wife and then kids with all of my investments listing my kids as beneficiaries. Signing for sale, he could utilize POA I would think. I'm not sure that being listed on the deed would clean up selling since each listed owner needs to sign for the sale to be valid if I'm not mistaken.

From what I can find, NC recognized TOD. I think I'd TOD the deed and use a POA for possible sale. But I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice...

[Bugsinrugs]

I may be wrong but you won’t get a stepped up basis if your name is added to the deed. Tax implications need to be considered.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Depending on where his parents are, meaning if the state they're in allows it, couldn't he do that with with transfer on death? I personally have all my stuff (cars, house, bank accounts)TOD to my wife and then kids with all of my investments listing my kids as beneficiaries. Signing for sale, he could utilize POA I would think. I'm not sure that being listed on the deed would clean up selling since each listed owner needs to sign for the sale to be valid if I'm not mistaken.

From what I can find, NC recognized TOD. I think I'd TOD the deed and use a POA for possible sale. But I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice...

NC does not recognize TOD deeds. There is some conflicting info out there, but bills have been introduced that have not passed. Other assets can be TOD'd.

Yes, a durable power of attorney would allow op to act on his parents behalf in transferring assets, including real estate. Caution that some brokerages won't recognize a dpoa that's not on that brokerage's form document.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

I may be wrong but you won’t get a stepped up basis if your name is added to the deed. Tax implications need to be considered.

Yes, that's a good point. This blog indicates that so long as you didn't provide funds for the purchase you still get the basis step up on their death. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/understanding-joint-tenancy-tax-griffin-bridgers/
But I'd confirm.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by greglepore

NC does not recognize TOD deeds. There is some conflicting info out there, but bills have been introduced that have not passed. Other assets can be TOD'd.

Yes, a durable power of attorney would allow op to act on his parents behalf in transferring assets, including real estate. Caution that some brokerages won't recognize a dpoa that's not on that brokerage's form document.

Yep! I did some looking after reading your comment and it appears they'll allow bank accounts and vehicles to TOD but not real estate. Seems weird. Seems like one of the the only ways to avoid probate at that point would be to use a Trust.

I had a firm refuse to recognize my DPOA for my mom because it wasn't their document. I told them I didn't care if it was their document because it was drafted according to Ohio law and if they don't honor it, they were welcome to explain to their client why the couldn't complete the purchase of the home. They changed their mind and accepted the DPOA.

Edit! This'll make your head spin if you dig into it! "North Carolina has allowed transfer-on-death (TOD) deeds since 2011."
From an attorney's site in Wilmington NC
https://donaldsonlawilm.com/how-to-avoid-probate-in-nc/

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

I may be wrong but you won’t get a stepped up basis if your name is added to the deed. Tax implications need to be considered.

True. In CA a trust is the way to go. KFC, you should talk to a lawyer and accountant. Or a lawyer versed in accounting and taxes which they should be if they are in real estate.

[john70t]

(WAGs here)
Another idea would be to convert title to a family trust to avoid probate, with you as beneficiary.
It might get expensive if there are non-standard If-Then clauses but will save more money and headache in the long run. K.I.S.S.

POA, Med POA, executor of will, trustee will all need to be specified by your parents. https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/wealth-management-insights/trustee-vs-executor

All sorts of problems happen during probate if siblings and wills are involved. For instance getting Mom cremated required pre-approval in writing by all siblings in case one party wanted burial instead, despite me having power of attorney and ability to write checks to caregivers etc on behalf of her account. It all went mostly smooth but there was potential for a massive problem there at the worst emotional time.

Our local taxes are capped unless there is modification or sale.
-Dad's rental was in a single-member LLC (back and forth a couple times the years before he died to his personal name, because he started dementia and got bad advice from the bank). The city actually previously wavered in writing any uncapping of the taxes. The year dad passed the city made family transfers of property seamless.
-Then the City used state corporate law to label it a "sale" because more than 50% of the LLC transferred. Taxes more than doubled.
-It was an expensive legal headache to bring the new valuation back into any kind of semblance to neighborhood comparables. So outrageous and fraudulent.
-I halfway suspect it was insider payback for him being an activist with neighbors and blocking a nearby development.

You might want a few hours consultation if a family transfer constitutes a "sale" and other potential issues. Do yer homework son. Gubmint entities are getting lean and they are getting hongary for tax money wherever they can find it.

[john70t]

Also look into pre-planning funeral costs and get it in writing.

Be warned. Almost everything in the industry (funeral homes and cemeteries) is currently being bought up by a certain corporation entity with the initials D.M. Almost every single one of our local family business options were, plus the cemetery in another state. I was shaking my head in disbelief.
But there were still a few independents around. For now.

And the prices? Through the roof Alice. Instead of a thousand for basic cremation, it was five ten twenty. Some wanted four grand just for the consultation process. Yeah.. You want an open casket full service? That's where the finance advisor starts nag-calling a dozen times a week to set up a layaway payment plan and get your down payment asap. Hard sell b.s. vultures.

[KFC911]

Thanks all ... I'll prolly just do nothing else at this point.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by KFC911

Elderly parents (Mom still of sound mind, Dad can still read, sign his name, etc. and would sign), both will soon be unable to legally sign anything requiring IDs, etc.

Nothing nefarious, no estate issues, etc. ... I'd like (mebbe) to go ahead and just add my name to their deed, for reasons mom understands and she approves. Should have been done years ago... hindsight ... 20-200 .

Pros/cons to simply doing a Quitclaim and adding me?

I'm looking for FREE legal advice from high priced attorneys licensed to practice law in NC btw!

Or anyone else

Thanks!

I'd advise that you pay a good contract lawyer...look into living trusts. Laws vary from state to state, but living trusts aren't just for the uber wealthy...the one Cindy & I selected won me over when he said he doesn't go to court, that he writes contracts so there is no need for court.

[icemann427]

Perhaps put the property into a Trust, with you as the successor Trustee.

[greglepore]

If its a trust, it must be revocable to preserve the step up in basis.

[JavaBrewer]

I live in CA and a trust is the only way to go with Real Estate holdings.

Edit, well except for rich folks who have other paths. For my working class family a trust is a good option to not lose the control of family residence my parents worked so had to earn.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by icemann427

Perhaps put the property into a Trust, with you as the successor Trustee.

Originally Posted by greglepore

If its a trust, it must be revocable to preserve the step up in basis.

True about the revocable trust and can work this way in a irrevocable trust under conditions (property).

California is a community property state, so when a spouse dies, their share of community property receives a step-up in basis.
The surviving spouse's share also gets a step-up at that time, leading to what is known as a "double step-up".
When the surviving spouse later passes away, the entire asset gets another step-up, which can significantly reduce capital gains for the final beneficiaries.


NC apparently follows that closely. Listen to us, the PPOT lawyers at large.

(Disclaimer, I am not giving legal advice.)

[KFC911]

Thank you ALL for the legal advice... those "retainer checks" are in the mail !

I appreciate everyone's input and perspective... the situation is unique, and it will work out just fine imo, left just as it is with no "last minute" tweaks . I investigated quite a few options several years ago, and between the attys, Covid, etc. this is where I'm at now...

I sure wish Greg and Milt were located in NC though... I would have hired THEM!

Thank you all...

[cabmandone]

I always say, Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow? That's how my dad's car ended up in probate.