Elderly drivers, unbearable tradgedy

[speeder]

I'm sure that everyone by now has heard or read about the 86 y.o. driver who mowed down everyone at the Santa Monica farmer's market today. He somehow stood on the accelerator for two and a half blocks through a dense crowd of people, never letting up until he hit another vehicle and finally stopped w/ one dead victim under his car and one on the hood. It is fairly obvious that it was not an intentional act, although it initially looked like the work of Al Quaeda, a car barreling ~60mph for that far through a crowd.

It is very sad for all, including the driver. It is the worst masacre-by-car that I can recall ever. My question: what to do about elderly drivers who cannot react properly anymore? Road test w/ reflex test on simulator anually past the age of 70 is my idea, what do you think? Let us remember, driving is NOT A RIGHT!

P.S.: I think that this ties in well w/ "speed kills" thread, and tougher tests/standards in Europe, etc.

[Adam]

Oh, Jesus! That's absolutely terrible.

I don't see how someone can go two and a half blocks without realizing something is drastically wrong. I hadn't heard about it yet, but you can imagine it'll be on our nightly news.

I agree with you on the annual testing for the elderly. Driving is indeed a priviledge, that's earned.

[hoff944]

This brings to mind the quote by Lloyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber, "Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose".

[DByers]

Denis, There were some reports that said he may have had a mild heart attack. Have you heard anything more about his condition? They ruled out medication and alcohol at the scene I heard.

[island911]

Originally posted by speeder
. . . My question: what to do about elderly drivers who cannot react properly anymore? Road test w/ reflex test on simulator anually past the age of 70 is my idea, what do you think? Let us remember, driving is NOT A RIGHT!
. . .

It is not "being elderly" that is the problem. You shouldn't imply that it is. People of all ages have seizers (sp?) Heart attacts and other problems. It's just when an old-fogie has one. . .

Anyway, have some perspective. Just how often do these freak accidents happen? Besides, Speeder, your a lot closer to 70 than I am . . .perhaps you should reconsider your less than flattering framing of "elderly drivers."

[speeder]

Island, Are you being serious, or just an assh*le?

No one has suggested that he had a siezure, (other than you), the driver himself has already made a statement the he "may have stepped on the gas instead of the brake by mistake".

No *****.

And BTW, how old are you? It is getting harder and harder to take your opinions as earnest. I am 44, and would immediately relinquish my driving privledge today if I was not competent for any reason. I have given up driving temporarily in the past due to medical conditions, such as a spinal injury last year.

If any evidence suggested that a siezure caused this incident, it would be a different discussion, but it it does not and is not. Read the known facts before sharing your wisdom w/ us.

[Stanley]

I believe that when drivers reach a certain age they should have to take a behind the wheel test and a eye test yearly. In the latest issue of Newsweek theres an article about an elderly woman who has macular degeneration, (which blurs vision) who was still driving when she really couldn't see much. I have experienced this first hand, my 85 year-old grandmother also has macular degeneration and was driving when she shouldn't have been. She thought she was a fine driver too, but in reality she couldn't see much at all and the only way she got around was just because the places she went were familiar. She was a danger to herself and everyone else on the road. We had to forcefully take her keys away from her and she is no longer driving. There are lots of other elderly people on the road just like her and the only way to take them off the road is by family members or friends. The government has no way to take these drivers off the road expect for eye tests, which are like every 5 years or so. Heres the Newsweek article: http://www.msnbc.com/news/934701.asp#BODY

[speeder]

And Dan, I have not seen any reports that suggest that he had any kind of heart attack, did that come from his legal counsel by any chance?

He got out of the car looking fine, if a little confused, and made incriminating statements to police that included nothing about a medical incident. Additionally, he was transported to hospital where they took blood for testing and then released him immediately to the police. He did not complain of any medical problems and walked out. He will probably be charged w/ vehicular manslaughter, (at least 9 counts as of now), it's a tradgedy for all involved and it did not have to happen, IMO.

[island911]

Speeder, re-read! I said ' People of all ages have seizers (sp?) Heart attacts and other problems.' Clearly this man had something that would fit in the catagory of other problems.

I'm in my thirties, which, on it's own should be enought to not take my opinions as earnest.

[speeder]

I believe that his 'other problem' was of a cognitive nature, he drove 2.5 blocks through human bodies w/o letting up. I know from first-hand experience that when an accelerator sticks, for instance, panic can cause one to freeze momentarily, , but after you have mowed down a few people you would maybe turn off the ignition, don't you think?

Unfortunately, this type of accident is all too common among elderly drivers, just usually they do not occur in the worst possible location on earth, a street bazaar or farmer's market.

I do not advocate an age limit for driving, just stricter testing. The political power of the AARP, (growing every year), must be ignored in this case, since their assertions do not agree w/ the facts and science. The retired person lobby claims that "older drivers are no less safe than young drivers, look at accident statistics". The problem is that statistics can lie, when you need them to. Once *miles driven* are factored in, elderly drivers kill more than any other age group. Test them.

[arcsine]

This tradgedy hits close to home.
A year and a half ago, my wife, child and mother in law were sitting at a stop light. One car in front and two cars behind. A gentelman driving a full size truck comes down the road in a full on epileptic seizure. Hits car one which hits car two which hits our van which hits the car in front. Estimate speed was 60+. Car one is demolished, car two (big Ram truck) little or no damage, our van pretty mush totaled. I get a call from my wife that this has happened so I rush to the scene to take care of my then 8 month old infant. The scene is pretty much carnage but by dumb luck no one is dead. All I can think is how did this guy get a license?

The decision has to be made that people with debilitating afflictions should not be allowed driving privleges based on the assumption that "It is probably OK for them to drive".

Same can be said for elderly people. Motor skills diminish as we age and there comes a time when you cannot reliably say that the elderly do not pose a threat. Maybe yearly physical and perception testing after the age of 65 could be a solution but non-action means that scenes like this will become more commonplace as the baby boomers age.

[MotoSook]

I saw the scene video on Headline news this morning as I was getting ready for work. It is terrible, and it could have been prevented in numerous ways. But since the discussion is really elderly drivers and their inability to control a motor vehicle, I have to agree with Dennis. Our population is getting older, with people living longer, and the government needs to change its policies to reflect an older population.

Old or young, if I can't control my car nor make good judgement behind the wheel most of the time, it's time to hire a sexy 19 yr old female driver for my dailey commutes...she has to be like the Charlise Theron (sic) character in "The Italian Job"..remake.

[911pcars]

I believe CA, and many other states, require an on-the-road driving test once a driver hits 70. I think I read the driver in this incident (86) did not for some reason. Reading accounts of this in the news bummed my day (9 fatalities including a 3 year old + 40 injured).

Now, let's try to get the rest of the incompetents off the road (under 70).

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars

[island911]

Originally posted by 911pcars
. . . .
Now, let's try to get the rest of the incompetents off the road (under 70).

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars

EXACTLY!

And Gary, we both drive thru Ballard. At least there, the diminished Motor skills drivers never break 10mph., and you can year them coming by the sound of the seatbelt hanging out the door, dragging across the pavement. heh-heh.

[arcsine]

Island,
I wish it were true but the accident I wrote about happened in Ballard.
Another stereotype shot to hell.

[island911]

Yeah, Gary. . .that was TIC, about Ballard. Though generally what I see in elderly drivers, is that through their long experience of driving, they know they are not up for any rally racing. They know when to go out, they know to slow it down, and (as Speeder aludes to ) they know when to call it quits.

When I hear "epileptic seizure" I don't think "old." -should I ?
I know a guy in CA that I suspect has them. Middle aged, seemingly healthy (runs marathons). . . If I ride with him, I keep an eye on him and the keys in the ignition.

[arcsine]

My guy was in his 50's to 60's and did not seem otherwise impaired. I am sure he like the guy in California are nice, caring people.

I will agree with you though, most of the Ballard gentry do not have aspirations of autocrossing or even hitting the speed limit.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

I know that in certian cases with epilepsy, if you have a severe enough seizure, they will suspend your driver's license unitl you have proved to the DMV that you have been taking medication and are under a doctor's care..

[CJFusco]

i have almost been hit by elderly drivers that are not paying attention countless times. In my experience, they don't look behind them when they back up... and that isn't even the worst of the problems.

My girlfriend's grandmother is TOTALLY unfit to be driving a car. One time she liked a house that she was driving past and stopped to take a look. The only problem was that it was on a double-line 40MPH road! Even with the honking behind her, she had no idea that she was holding up traffic... she was completely out of it!

Now, I'm not saying that all elderly are unfit to drive, because that is certainly not true. My uncle Curt is 68 and he Club Races at LimeRock park, and well, mind you. I just think that at a certian age - 65, for example, they should retest every year.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

I've been backed into as well. I was stuck in traffic, when grandpa decides to back up for whatever reason. I honk at him, flash my brights, he still backs up. Obviously there was a car behind me so i cant reverse to avoid him hitting me, so he backs his Cadillac (big surprise) right into my Toyota pickup, denting my bumper. I get out of my truck, run up to where he is and he says he didnt see me. Figures.

I agree that there should be some sort of improved or yearly testing for elderly drivers. It's a fact that the eyes and the ears dont work as well as you age, why dont they do something about it?