VW camper van - what d'ya think?
 

My wife and I periodically talk about buying a VW camper van someday. We're thinking it might be nice for travelling around North America. Anyone have any experience / feedback that might persuade / dissuade us? Thanks!

I'll suggest a vanagon weekender, or standard vanagon.
If you decided otherwise (Full kitchen) your insurance rates go way up, (due to the fire potential), you have to be very careful of what you cook (vinyl really can hold oders) and then you pay a serious premium for the vehicle.

As to Vanagon or Eurovan. . . well, one has the boxer engine in the back. ;)
The newer Eurovans, to the older Vanagons, are like the 928 to a 911.

A buddy of mine, who owns one of each, had his Eurovan water pump seize on him, somewhere in Montana. The waterpump, took out the timing belt, which did-in the motor. It's still in Montana, BTW . . .full kitchen, pop-top. . .wanna buy it?

Jim,
We had a VW Westphalia camper years ago. It was a great little vehicle. I only wish I knew John Walker back then so he could have put a 3.0 911 motor in it.

I haven't driven one of the newer ones with the motor in the front. I'm sure they'd be fine, especially if there was more power than the old ones.

Thanks guys! I'm clueless about the VW vans so I'll need to do some research. Lu (the wife) and I are thinking about long trips by camper van. I'm even thinking that sometime I'll rent a VW camper (new ones for rent up around Boston) so we can make sure it really is what we want to do.

I didn't realize the new vans are front engined. I also wasn't aware that their engine reliability might be so-so. And the insurance issue was also unexpected. I guess there's lots to learn yet, so I'd better get started! Thanks again.

oh, hey, Jim . . .I didn't mean to suggest the newer engine reliability might be so-so. I just was pointing to the design difference. Like a 928, or 944; the Euro uses a belt! (for the cam drive) IMO, too many things can "compromise" a belt. . . .on an "interference motor" it is risky design. (unless the 'design' is planned obsolecence.)

The vanagons are push-rod style (read: bullet proof)

dammit Jim, now you've got me looking at ads. I've always loved VW vans, and it would be so nice to have for day trips to the beach or mountains here in SoCal. Looks like air cooled up until '83. I love the old ones, but they are so damn slow. Although with a rebuilt 2.7 motor...hmmm..

here ya go Jim...not a poptop, but $950 and "needs engine". And can you put a price on that paint job?

http://images.traderonline.com/img/s...9lmh0103_1.jpg

Todd, that van is sweet! Makes me want to take up surfing. Now if I could just get a day job over at Scripps...

OK, reality check...I'm starting to think about big big rides, as RoninLB calls them. The p-car is nice (esp. the 993) for cruising, but with my better half along (a firm requirement :) ), it might be more fun in a camper van. Also, we're no longer at that point in life where sleeping on the ground sounds like fun. I think the only VW camper ammenity that I'd forgo is a built-in stove. Of course, all of this is in the conceptual stage...too much I still need to learn.

Thanks for your help and creative suggestions (Todd)!

Jim,
You should have the stove too. Our old Westy had it all, and was a great vehicle with which to hit the racing circuits. To this day, my wife complains that we should have never sold it.
BTW, the rental idea sounds like a good one.

While I agree with Doug, that you should have a stove too; I think you are FAR better off having a portable one. If/when you check market prices on the Westies, you will be shocked by the delta, just for that pair of fixed whimpy burners.

BTW, Jim, the fold-down beds in the vanagons are very comfortable.
I will also add; find a light color exterior. I had a dark-blue vanagon, and found it to be extreamly cold when camping under a clear night sky.
(dark colors under a clear night sky do the opposite of when they are under the sun. . .its a radiant heat thing. --don't under estimate its effects)

island, I was thinking portable stove, too. My wife is Chinese and cooks chinese-style (very hot oil and garlic) about 50% of the time. I can't imagine her doing that inside a van! Refridgerator, sink and water tank seem like must haves. A heater for those cool nights sounds good, too. I like your suggestion about staying with a light color exterior. It makes a lot of sense.

I'm curious about the various years and technologies - air vs. water cooled, front vs. rear engined, creature comforts and safety features of VW camper vans that are new, fairly new, not so new, downright old, etc. Anyone aware of any reference materials for me to look for?

I hope that over the next couple of years we can decide if this type of travel really suits us, and what we really like in a camper van.

Thanks again for all your advice!

Vanagon.com is a great place to start off. ( a big site)

A couple other notes:
air vs. water cooled, reads to me as "cold vs heated" . . .the heat exchangers on the air-cooled just dont do the job of heating all that volume.

I currently own a white syncro (all wheel drive). skip the syncro option unless you do a whole lot of snow driving, or serious off-roading.

RE, safety: http://vanagon.com/info/safety/volvo-crash/index.html

Oh, yeah. . .I've noticed a lot of folks have the misguided idea of the vehicle being a house on wheels (kitchen sink, etal). My experience says you need to really rethink how you will be handling the daily living while on the road. You no-longer just stack your dishes in the sink to "get to later", for example.

Simple & minimal, generally win the day.

Good point about the change in living style when on the road. That reminds me of the times my wife, son and I would spends a few days living aboard our old sailboat. Everything had to be taken care of and stowed in its place every day.

I have owned older Westies and vans, plus researched Vanagons and Eurovans a bit lately. The Eurovans seem to last, (lots of high-milers on ebay), but nothing can beat the interior layout of the Vanagon, (1980-91). As for air vs. H2o cooled, the later is a LOT better, IMO, in spite of some head gasket issues. If you can get a sorted-out waterboxer, they are great. Real heat and A/C, plus good MPG and OK power. (Both of these become less w/ Westy model and/or Synchro, mucho weight gain). :(

Having owned full campers and travelled in them, my favorite is now a regular Vanagon w/ folding bed and table, (either a Wolfsburg Ed., Carat, or any '89-'91), nice low roof clearance for parking ramps, less weight and (slightly) better aero, all you need is a cooler, cell phone and laptop w/ DVD player and net card, BINGO! you've got a live-aboard! :D

Great idea! I currently have a truck camper on a big-block 4x4 3/4 ton Ford - it is such a pain to get ready, drinks so much gas (<7 mpg I kid you not), and handles so poorly that we never use it - it just decorates the local RV storage yard. We are thinking about a compact little Westfalia too.

How do people like the pop-up roof and the upper bunk? Since we have little kids, that's a feature that catches my eye.

I found this inspirational site about living in a Wesfalia: http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/

Edit: corrected the URL.

John, If you have kids, then a pop-top Westy is the way to go. Non- pop-tops only sleep two, and they have to really like each other. ;)

So, for just a couple of adults, is the pop top worthwhile? Is there better headroom? Thanks!

I would agree with speeder (!) and say, for just a couple of adults, the pop-top is notworthwhile. You don't gain the headroom, again they get premium price, if in good order. If you figure you will be toting lots of stuff, then, the pop-top is good (no stuff stacked on your bed).

Hey Island, I almost forgot, can you explain how the dark colors are colder at night? Not doubting it, just never have heard this, sounds interesting........ Also, would it affect how cold it gets in real cold weather, or just cool nights, or what? :confused:

TIA. :cool:

Denis....
Of course island is FOS.
Our Westy camper was blue. We used it for winter camping adventures every year. Mrs. Z would tell you it was *not* any colder at night. She would just turn on the gas heater!
:)

Was at a VW drag race and show with Cornpanzer (his VW bug runs low 12's in the 1/4 mile :eek: ) today and there were several dozen VW Campers on display. Mostly 60's and 70's vintage - some VERY cool stuff. This was my favorite: the Skankmobile!!!



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059271850.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059271962.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1059271999.jpg

Great pics, Curt...and nothing skanky about that pilsner-mobile!

Yeah, those are awesome photos, Curt. Thanks for posting them! The "Skankmobile" is beyond cool. :cool:

Hey guys, was the Vanagon / Westy / Eurovan available without the pop-top but still with a camper interior? Thanks.

Jim, I don't think so. They made a pop-top w/o stove and fridge, called it a "Weekender". I've toyed w/ the idea of adding some Westy equipment to a regular (low top) Vanagon, if you could find a donor it would not be difficult. :cool:

The guy with the 'Skankmobile' even had matching original 60's wood cases of beer inside. This vehicle was absolutely perfect in every way.

BTW, I had a little fun chasing that Spyder on a 2 laner on the way out of the track ...... :D

That's a great suggestion, Denis.

Curt, that sure was a nice looking spyder.

Radiant heat will move thru air & space from a hot source to a colder source.

For example we all know a trible black cab. is a bun-burner when the sun is out. (sun=hot radiant source . . . black car=(relatively) cold; radiantly speaking.

However, a black night sky is relatively cold, radiantly speaking, with respect to the black car. So, it (the black car) looses heat radiantly, to the night sky.

If you have cloud cover, it acts to block the radiant heat transfer . . .just like one of those silver blankets.

. . .a longer explaination.
(This article is really FOS, Doug. ) ;)

island, I was thinking a bit about this and I have an opinion about this vehicle color stuff. Light colors reflect light, and along with it, energy. Dark colors absorb light and energy. If you wear a black shirt in the summer, you're hotter than if you wore a white shirt. If you have snow covering the ground in the winter, light and heat are reflected back into space which is dark and absorbs the reflected energy. If you have a dark colored vehicle, it absorbs light and energy, winter or summer. Obviously, there's more energy to absorb in the summer, but I think a dark colored camper would be warmer than a light colored one. Of course, I might be just babbling nonsense; however, I've at least convinced myself. :D

yeah, it may not seem too intuitive. Think of it this way, the "blacker" (darker) something is, the more it absorbs heat. Space is as black as it gets.

"Black" objects easily trade heat radiantly, where light colored objects are usually more inert.

Oh, and remember, there is a lot more light than just what we can see.

no, "Smell the Glove" was as black as it gets. I mean, you have to ask the question, "how much more black could the cover be, and the answer is 'none'". None more black.

Obviously there are holes in your education Island...

Hahaha LOL! This is what happens when I'm serious for a second.
.. . and here I thought I was showing huge restraint, on that post, by not responding with:

"It's a BLACK thang, YOU wouldn't understand."

:cool:

Smell the Glove? What the? Is this OT topic veering wildy OT? What happened to finding psychadelic(sp)-painted camper vans, Todd? :cool: :D

Todd must be a Spinal Tap fan...Smell the Glove was the title to one of their albums which happened to be all black..no cover art, just black.

I still think they should have stuck with the original cover...:eek:

Thanks Marc. Actually, the Spinal Tap ref wasn't lost on me...I was just wondering how an "off topic" topic can so easily veer "off topic"! Or was my wondering, in itself, taking this topic "off topic".

The increased gravitational effects from Planet X create an intellectual "tipping point". As such, topics easily veer "off topic". When starting from the "off" area, the tipping is exacerbated since the topic stability is proportional to the intellectual content.

S = (IC * Spq)/(ns * IE)

Where S = stability
IC = intellectual content
Spq = sensible poster's quotient
ns = nostatic
IE = Island talking engineering

ns, I think your term in the denominator is missing something...shouldn't it be (ns * IE) ^t, where "t" is the idle time of "ns"?

There was a VW van (about a 79ish) at the last Pomona swapmeet with a 3.6 in it! Hell ya! It also had fuchs, 4 point harnesses, etc. Nothin' like blowin' the doors off of the ricers that pull up next to you while you're in the 70's VW van! If I had a camera I would have taken a couple of pics.

We had a 71 when I was a kid. It was cool. Bed, sink, refrige, closet. I wanted it, but my dad sold it before I got my license :(