Dell Laptops suck...I want a Mac ;)
 

Towards the end of the Mac/Windows discussion I mentioned I'd be getting a Dell laptop. No fault of mine; my company's doing an "Employee Purchase Program" which gives me $1000 to spend at Dell. The rule is that I must buy a system, then use the remainder on whatever I want from Dell or spend more $$$ and get a better system.

I chose path #2. I bought an Inspiron 8600 with a big HD, lots of RAM, WSXGA+ LCD, Centrino 1.4 GHz, blah blah blah. $2600 before rebates! $2150 after. Haven't sent in for them yet, because...

I got the thing yesterday and it is A PIECE OF *****!!! The build quality is the worst I've seen of any laptop--ever--and the materials are absolute crap. The case is seemingly built from recycled soda bottles. Or perhaps imitation Tupperware. It feels like it's about to fly apart faster than an over-revved helicopter that was maintained by someone who disdains thread-lok.

Now, as for performance it was pretty damn quick. So's a supercharged Daewoo. I paid for a C32 AMG and got shipped a Daewoo, goddammit!

I've initiated a return and will be buying the cheapest box I can and some peripherals that I don't really need to come in under the $1000 limit. I don't need another desktop computer but I absolutely refuse to buy another Dell laptop.

So help me out here, guys. Especially you Mac people. You know you want me to buy an iBook or something. I've got $1150 to play with. Hell, I'd be willing to go as high as $1300.

Here's what a laptop has to do to be acceptable:

1) Play DiVX avi
2) SVideo out
3) 802.11b wifi networking
4) NOT BE BUILT LIKE A PIECE OF EXCREMENT

Suggestions?

(Said with a Japanese accent) Ah Toshiba, Toshiba good.

I've never had a problem with Dell laptops, but then we only use the Lattitude ones (business line, not home consumer line). As a bonus, they take Linux really easily :)

For a Mac laptop, check into the 12" powerbook.

Toshiba make very nice laptops, so do Acer. I've had both. The Toshiba Satellite I had was a very, very nice, well built unit. I had an Acer (Celeron) a few years ago and I had a great run with that, too. Reliable, quiet and fast (for the technology of the time).

The Acer stuff is OK? I always got the feeling they were a "bargain brand". Not sure why.

I've got an IBM T23 for work, so I guess I'm spoiled. The thing is a freaking tank. Goes anywhere, does anything, is fairly light, and takes a LOT of abuse. I accidentally dumped an entire bottle of iced tea into it....tea was coming out of the DVD drive, audio ports, vents...I turned it off, let it air dry, and it worked fine. Amazing.

I just wish it was a little faster (and not owned by my employer!).

The T30 is a nice piece of equipment. Light-weight, but built pretty solid. The next in line for ibm is the T40, which we are now issuing to our users at work. Built-in Wi-Fi is nice. Their only drawback is that they come with NO floppy drive. May not be an issue for some, since it does have a CD-RW/DVD drive you can use as a mega-floppy. But for us, imaging them over the network is a pain. You can order an external floppy drive, but it's just something else to have to carry around.

Randy

Just got a Compaq/HP Presario 3000 with a 16" LCD screen, and it's really great. 2.4 GHZ Pentium 4. Does DIVX, NTSC video out (not sure about s-video though). Wireless B and G built in.

$1200.

Highly recommended

ditto on the Stinkpads. I bought a 2621 back in the day and it worked like a champ.. until my ex-wife tossed it out of the window one day ;) it was in the targus case, dropped from two stories and landed on grass. only broke the screen, everything else worked.

o.k. so the dvd quit about a year later but hey... a real testament to their build quality. I liked the thinkpad enough to consider rebuilding it even though it's already four years old. anyone sitting on some old 2621 parts they wanna get rid of??

as for other suggestions, bought my g/f a toshiba earlier this year and it appears to be a solid performer. the Vaios are nice too

You can do Divx on a Mac with a free codec available. The other stuff isn't a problem. You could get a new iBook, but I think you're better off with a G4 machine unless you just want to do basic stuff (ie, I wouldn't edit/render video or audio on an iBook).

If you have access to educational prices, you could get a 12" G4 that is a very nice (and extremely well built) for $1399. That is with 256MB of ram...I'd bump it up to at least 512, and an 812.11 card is another $100.

Yes, more expensive than many of the PC laptops, but the industrial design is amazing. And the OS doesn't suck. And 10.3 is *very* fast...

OK, tell me more...

Whatever I get is going to be used for
a) wifi surfing
b) video playback (DVD and Divx)
c) goofing off when I should be working

I'll still use my desktop for any serious content-creation tasks (video, MP3, etc). This is going to be purely a toy.

I love the look of the 17" PowerBook but it's WAY outside my price range.

Would an iBook suffice for this? What kind of battery life do these things get? A decent Centrino notebook can pull 4+ hours in some cases.

Also, will I be able to plug my "Windows" iPod into an iBook? Or am I screwed on that one?

Having been playing the stereotypical IT geek road warrior for the last 4 years, here's what I've found - take it as feedback only and make your own decision:

Dell - Still my preference, however go with the Latitudes they are designed SPECIFICALLY for business portability, stay FAR away from the Inspiron's - home/consumer grade crap at best. NB - I'm currently on a Dell Latitude C640 (no longer made...) and am quite happy. BTW, I can always stick a second battery in the other bay without turning the unit off - gives me enough time to get from SF to Atlanta and then about another hour or two in the airport.

Toshiba - Sucks. Had three Tecra's, sent them all to the great hardware Recycle Bin in the sky. Poor construction, poor service history HORRIBLE about getting parts to me for repairs. Parts were always 4 week lead time - not a good thing if you need a new LCD or system board like now!!!

Compaq - Had a M700 and M300 and had excellant reliability, minor spotty problems, but might have been attributable to the dual-boot way I had them set up.

IBM - Tough as nails, but similar problems with parts, and very very moody. Seemed like the one I had was always PMS'ing or something.

Sony - Cool. A lot of bling-bling but pretty neat machines nonetheless. Not sure I'd spring for it if it were me though.


My advice get the best you can afford, you don't necessarily need the bleeding edge for mobility (Centrino processor) as you can always add a PC card to the unit.

Look for expandibility - some of them have expansion units (Compaq IBM) rather than bays (Dell) that you HAVE to have if you want to use the CD-ROM, floppy, or plug in an external mouse.

It's still a personal decision bottom line. What do need to have and what would you like vs. what can you afford...

Once you get a Mac, you will fall in love with the operating system.

Don't feel compelled to get a new one. Anything that will run OSX and has the hardware you need will be great.

where's a good place to shop for used notebooks, macs in particular?

check here
 

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/oct/22ibook.html

This could solve any budget issues...

I've seriously massaged my budget and decided I'm going w/ a new (non-Ti) 15" PowerBook. It's the lowest end machine with SVideo-out. Or am I missing something?

Win2K puking on my desktop (again) sealed that deal. Who would've thought un-installing Nero Burning Rom would blow away all Explorer-based apps? My machine is soundly f*cked. It's going to become strictly a Linux box. I'm tired of getting "microsofted" (insert penile joke here).

Nostatic, what add ons would you suggest for the 14" ibook? Do you think they will release the 17" is an affordable ibook? We want a laptop to do a running picture show at (alpaca) shows and keep an inventory of registration and histogram documents as well as pics. We also would use it for word processing and occasionally surfing. I've never used an apple product but I've about had it with ms.

I believe the 12" does S-video out, as do the iBooks (I think you need a dongle/adapter though for those). If you can afford the 15" it is the way to go...

I haven't seen the new G4 iBook. I don't think you'll see a 17" iBook for quite some time, as it is a different target market. The only downside to the new G4 iBook is it maxes out at 640MB of RAM. That will run most everything, but I like lots of ram (although I've had machines running OSX on 512MB for some time without incident).

As for add ones, not sure what you mean. They are ready to go right out of the box. You have all your basic apps (mail, web, photo, music, video), and the only thing most people need is Office for word processing and spreadsheet (although you can use AppleWorks).

Well, I ordered a new 15" PB. 1GHz, 768 MB of RAM, 60 GB HD, ComboDrive, AirPort, and the 3-year warranty.

It cost me a pretty penny, but I've lost at least that much (time-wise) just *****ing with my stupid Win2k box trying to keep it from crashing. Linux here I come. Now I just have to decide which distribution will be most user-friendly (my wife is the primary user of this machine).

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Sweet!

Yah, I'm pretty stoked. I don't think I get the light-up keyboard, though. :( Oh, well, I'm sure there are some USB-powered keyboard lights out there. ;)

I went into CompUSA today to play around with their PB floor models and I just like the way everything seems to work smoothly. My work Win2K laptop is getting kinda fritz-y and I'm having not a lot of fun getting my LInux desktop so my wife can use it.

Hope I get to upgrade to 10.3 cheap!

Y'know, I used to be a real UNIX geek, loved to tinker with everything, didn't mind stuff not working right, wanted everything to be a challenge. Now, after many years, I just want the damn things to work. I don't have time to f*ck around with these idiot boxes anymore. I spend all day at work managing a huge software product, writing code, beating up developers, dealing with moron customers, kicking the asses of our software suppliers, and managing a lab full of (Windows) workstations and servers on the side. To quote the Beatles, "I'm so tired..."

I just want to be able to check my email, watch videos, burn a disc or two, and sync my iPod at home. Is that too much to ask?

you will be stoked. The new 15" units are damn nice...just got my web guy one today to replace his Ti book. The only issue I've heard are some units having white spots on the display. Seems pretty limited, and Apple is acknowledging the problem. Odds are if you are doing a BTO machine, you'll have one that is sorted.

There are USB lights out there. I've got a cool blue one, but I rarely use it. I can touch type so working in the dark isn't too tough.

The cool thing is you can get back into unix...just pull up a terminal window and you've got a shell running. The iPod sync is flawless, as is most of the other experience.

Holy schmoly, I just read a huge thread about the "white spots" problem. Hope I don't have another Dell-type situation. :confused:

no, Apple actually is very good about things like that...especially if you have an Apple Store near you. When my first generation iPod died, I walked into the Apple Store, they verified that it was indeed dead, and they gave me a new one.

There has been a thread going on our local geek mailing list here at the university. Seems that almost everyone has been having problems with Dell stuff for the last couple years, and almost all the IT guys have sworn off buying any of their crap.

This just further underscores the MYTH about Mac vs. PC reliability. It kills me that people continue to play the reliability card in deciding to move from a PC to a Mac. Dead Pods, white spots, system bugs, yada yada yada, it goes on and on. What's so different here? My office neighbor has jumped through hoops here at work to keep his Mac and Linux machines. For philosophical resons he absolutely will not use Redmond products. Yet he continues to have more problems over the course of a month than I do running my.....Dell.

Are people upgrading for hardware or software? Mac has a tighter control over hardware, which is generally top notch, and top $$$$, but you can just as easily spec a PC with top quality components as well for a fraction of the cost. Many PC reliability issues stem from users who install some bargain type component with lousy drivers they got a "deal" on at Frys.

Now to me, if a person likes the Mac OS look and feel and proprietary hardware so much that he/she is willing to shell out extra $$$ to get it - then hey fine go for it. That would be a valid reason to switch.

That's not the whole story. I have a small office that networks 5 Macs. Networking and managing peripherals is dead simple. I have no IT department. If something crashes (which is rare), I can have us up and running in 10 minutes or so. I have been running a Mac only shop for 10 years now. Hardware failure rate is ZERO.

Before the Macs, I ran Windows on a variety of machines. I had constant nightmares. Peripheral component and driver compatability was a constant issue. When something went wrong, it was a complete hassle to unravel. If I want a challenging problem to solve, I'll read a mystery novel. At work I simply have no time or inclination troubleshoot the vagaries of the Windows operating system.

Simply put, Macs work. Predictably and reliably, they just work.

David, you're working from a small dataset. I've been in a variety of university environments, all cross platform. In EVERY situation (and we're talking thousands of machines and users) hardware and softare issues were far smaller for the Mac. No manufacturer is perfect, but when things go wrong, Apple usually ponies up quickly. And you're not talking to Bangalore when you call support (at least afaik).

Moses,

First, you've been running a Mac office for 10 years with probably all very similar (hardware/software configurations) machines. Before that was what, Windoz 3.1, or maybe at the very end 95, all on "a variety of machines". Your experience, though valid, is not relevant for a person shopping for a current day computer/OS.

Hell I am anything but a networking/admin type and even I have networked 3 (not 5) machines in just a few hours time with Win2K and XP. You want real problems try establishing a network over LAN with Windows (XP, 2K, and NT), Solaris, and Linux.

As I previously stated, a PC can be assembled using a virtual laundry list of components/manufacturers, this is by design. It is up to the user (or SysAdmin) to choose the components that best assemble the machine for its intended purpose. Over the years windoz has made a lot of progress in minimizing issues posed with this type of setup - where Mac generally avoided this from the start by forcing owners down the same path. I can see value in both approaches.

However we're branching off into Networking issues and away from the original thread. BlueSky wants to "check my email, watch videos, burn a disc or two, and sync my iPod at home. Is that too much to ask?" No it's not, other than the iPod (don't have one - but they sound cool) I have been doing all those things and more for 2 years on my Dell (Latitude) laptop. Heck I have a P233 Win98 machine at home that maintains my MP3 collection (4 GB). Today I couldn't give that machine away, yet it's fine for web browsing, listening to music, looking at family pictures, and even running MS office tools. Total value including monitor, about $150. In the 4 years I've had it I had rebuild the machine exactly one time when the hard drive finally packed up. Thank god for backups eh!

At work we are a decidedly Windoz house with 65 employees, about 200+ PCs, a few dozen Solaris machines, and handful of Linux boxes and exactly 2 Macs. We have one SysAdmin who spends a large portion of his day surfing the internet...just not Pelican like me :p

That all said I think OSX is a great step for Mac - their first "real" operating system. I would consider using one if price wasn't such a problem for me, and the fact that my customers pay me to develop for the machines they deploy - Solaris/Windoz. BTW - I am a Java developer - well, used to, now I manage Java developers and take them to lunch now and then when they pull of a delivery on tight deadlines :)

OK, my point is that for the amount of money I paid for the Dell ($2680, shipped, before rebates) I have a reasonable expectation of "quality" in terms of feel, construction, materials, features, and usability. The Dell was a stinking pile of crap except on the features scale, and half of those features I didn't really want or need but couldn't change (BTW, WUXGA resolution makes everything impossible to read, regardless of the system font size you choose--many dialog boxes have fixed sizes, so when you up the fontsize you can't read anything in 'em).

For a few dollars more I'm getting--hopefully--a machine with similar capabilities, looks a hell of a lot nicer, is made from far better materials, is constructed much better, and is designed for usability over flexibility. Yes, I'm actually looking for less flexibility (we side-stepped that discussion earlier, David, and I'll continue the trend!).

Don't get me wrong, I'll always own Wintel machines. Just without the "Win" part. And never again will I purchase a Dell. Now they're even trying to screw me on the return (the return site declined delivery because they were doing "inventory"! Which means Dell is holding my $$ hostage and FedEx is holding the laptop until Dell requests it!!!).

Todd, I bought this machine through a reseller--not directly from Apple--but the Apple store down the street from me will still handle any warranty issues, right? I mean, do they represent the company? Or are they a spin-off or something?

Respectfully disagree.

Windows has always been an emulation program. A "user friendly" interface designed to hide the machines ugly DOS skeleton.

Mac OS has always been an elegant system that communicates directly with the heart of the system. OSX is a beautiful refinement of that philosophy.

OSX is not a refinement - but a complete replacement for the previously mentioned "elegant" Mac underpinnings - with a Unix clone.

I admit the shameless dig about a "real os" was in bad taste, :)

I came out to the Sears parking lot to find my 914 in flames. OK, my point is that for the amount of money I paid for the Porsche ($5680, shipped, before rebates) I have a reasonable expectation of "quality" in terms of feel, construction, materials, features, and usability. The Porsche was a stinking pile of crap that spontaneously combusted sitting in the parking lot.

For a few dollars more I'm getting--hopefully--a machine with similar capabilities, looks a hell of a lot nicer, is made from far better materials, is constructed much better, and is designed for usability over flexibility - a Firebird Trans Am. ;)

Dell makes loads of computers - some great and some not so great. It's a given that the Latitude is a more serious machine than the Inspirion. Seriously, congrats on the new PB and hopefully it's everything you hope it to be. SmileWavy

Your analogy, while almost amusing, is offbase. Bursting into flames (covered by insurance or warranty) is not the same as looking like it had been slapped together by blind, deranged 8-year-olds when brand new ("That's the way they all are, sir").

And the 1967-1969 Firebird was a cool car. ;)

The employee purchase program under which I was allowed to buy a Dell at a discount permitted me to choose from the Inspiron and Dimension lines. That's it. Latitudes were not available under this program.

This experience with Dell has been marked by horrible service, a crappy product, and massive inconvenience to me.

PS: Sorry to hear about your 914, should've bought a real Porsche. ;)

yes, the Apple Store will take care of any repair issues. In fact, if you just have questions on "how do I do x", you can go there and they will help you. A real person. In person. What's up with that?

the original MacOS (system 6), was damn stable. We had Mac SEs in the lab running almost 24/7 and they pretty much never went down. System 7 introduced the ability to run multiple apps...it got less stable. Each iteration got a little worse as more capabilities were added. The main problem is that the OS was designed for a single user, and the world changed into a multi-user/network environment. As they kludged multi-tasking capabilities onto the top of the OS, stability suffered. Then as they opened up hooks for 3rd party extensions, it got worse. The move to OSX (and BSD unix core via nextstep) was needed so they could start with a multi-tasking, multi-user core and then build ease-of-use onto the top. They were working on other solutions, but when Jobs came back and brought next with him, that was the direction (anyone remember pink, or BeOS?)

One thing about the older MacOS...it was damn near hack proof. Since at it's core it was a single user system, it tended to be a very secure server platform. As I recall a Swedish group had $$$ on the table to anyone that could hack into their Mac server. The money went unclaimed...

BeOS ruled.

A damn shame they went down the tubes. I still boot into it every once in a while for giggles.

I don't believe it. Dammit! I want my automated voice menu system! :D

For those of you who give a crap, today is Day 45 of Dell still holding my $1680 hostage. I've sicced American Express and the Better Business Bureau on them. That's pretty much all I can do at this point.

Those lousy f*ckers have made an enemy for life. I will forever shout from the hilltops how awful Dell service and quality are. I will make it my mission in life to keep as many people as possible from buying from Dell.

In the meantime my Apple PB is going mostly strong. Had some crashes, turned out to be a bad (expansion) memory module. It's getting replaced at the reseller's expense; they even arranged for FedEx to come out to me an pick it up on their dime. How did this get diagnosed? Well, I took it into an Apple store a few miles from my home and a tech ran a few tests. I didn't even buy the PB from the store! And the memory was even third party!

Now that's service.

yeah, each hardware iteration has gotten more sensitive to RAM specs. Luckily as you've seen, the resellers are pretty good about making it right. And yes, Apple stores rock. I walked in with a dead iPod, and walked out with a replacement unit.