Oh yeah, god forbid that people at one time had the freedom of thought and action to believe in anything they wanted, especially if it was communism.

Thank god our government stomped on the rights of american citizens and killed millions of people around the world for their polical beliefs by labelling anti-capitalist ideas the 'enemy of democracy'.

If McCarthy's witchhunts were allowed to take their full course just imagine how much better of a country we would have today.

With beliefs like Petes so prevailent today I can see how there are so many dupes that believe that self determinism is a right not deserved by arabs and other people who are not open to taking it up the a$$ by the US.

As we all know only the US has the right to be guided by selfish motives and tell the rest of the world to take a flying leap if they don't like it.

The lives of thousands of people were ruined by McCarthy's paranoid, megalomaniac insanity. The blacklists are a dark period of US history. I don't know that I've ever talked with anyone that thought McCarthy was right in what he was doing...

and so at one time (basically) was the right to own humans as property ;)

Billy - Great post!!!

The sad thing about trying to figure out "terrorism" is just how hard it is to figure out.

Maybe it's just me, but before I have a "War On......", I'd like to know the what, how, who, and WHY. "Terrorism" isn't even really a "thing" as much as it is a "feeling".

Trying to figure out Terrorism is like trying to solve a Rubik Cube that is all one color. In order to solve it, you need to have 6 different colors - each color plays off the other and we use these colors to make one solved cube in the end. Those colors are the "who, what, how, why, etc". We could spin the cube of Terrorisms all day long and in the end, the only thing we find out is that this particular cube is unknown to us.....and we fear the unknown.

Terrorism is just the 2000 version of the Russian Threat of he 80's. It doesn't even really exist and if it does, it was created, just like every other "enemy" or "scary force" from the past.

Someone asked what is the alternative to the Patriot Act?

That's a simple one......stop being scared or what is essentially a "boogyman under the bed".

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

BillyPilgrim,

Pacifism generally leads mediocrity. This country was founded by use of deadly force and today America continues to use such force to maintain it. Use of force and political persuasion is not an American patent. Your school ground scenarios, if real, are truly pathetic and are not something to extol.

Simply pulling out of the Middle East is not going to work. We have a responsibility to our allies (Israel is one of them) to maintain a presence there. Pulling out and abandoning our interests there would serve a catastrophic blow to our credibility around the world.

America is a super power. Combined with our allies we are the modern day Rome. The world is not a friendly place filled with smiling umpa-lumpa's with fists full of candy. The day we concede is the day democracy will die

"Terrorism" isn't even really a "thing" as much as it is a "feeling". Really? Where have you been the last 10 years?

Terrorism is just the 2000 version of the Russian Threat of he 80's. It doesn't even really exist and if it does, it was created, just like every other "enemy" or "scary force" from the past. So all the bombings and loss of life around the world are just fiction - like the moon walks - is that it then?

Someone asked what is the alternative to the Patriot Act?
That's a simple one......stop being scared or what is essentially a "boogyman under the bed".
Jeff (944S Boyeee)
The one thing I agree on - stop being scared. Never conceed your way of life to a group of stone age religious zealots.

Striving to be like Rome isn't a good thing. Rome collapsed, as will America if the current flow continues (which it will, even if things keep getting worse).

I know people keep asking and arguing about America pulling out of the Middle East. They will, after every Muslim is gone. Remember, this planet is controlled by the elite super-rich, not the Governments and those elite just so happen to be mostly Jewish and German. They will continue to fund any side that is with Israel.

The elimination of Iraq was just the first step. Watch for more wars with Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and perhaps even the Sudan.

America is being used just like America used Osama against the Russians - just on a more massive scale. Eventually, America will be left like Afghanistan was and these super-rich elite will form the New World Order when America (and some other countries) beg for one Government. It will seem like the only solution to all these problems these super-rich created.

That is where we are headed. One money, one Government, one Army, one Order. Many can't see it yet, but the clues are already there. Look at the "Euro"....I mean, there is your "one money" aspect being started already. Isn't the American $20 being made with color now? Hummmmmm......maybe it's to get Americans used to the "change" about to come. How long has American money been colorless? Just about as long as the right to bare arms I'm guessing. Hummmmmm.....are they not baning certain weapons now? Seems like a major change to the 2nd Amendment. There is that word again...."change".

America will collapse, it's inevitable. All super-powers crumble.....at least history has told us this. But ask yourself this.....is "history" what we really think it is, or is it just all a big scheme to program us to swallow our fate and write it off as a "well, that's how it's supposed to happen"??

I know nothing - but I do know one thing....the most important thing.....M-O-N-E-Y makes the world go 'round - and if you think all these "wars" and "attacks" and "enemies" are real, then you have been played sucka.

We all are just those lil' pieces of plastic like in the game Risk - we are meaningless. 3000+ people died on 9/11 - that's like dropping one plastic piece off the table while playing Risk. Sometimes you won't even bother to bend over to pick it up.

If anyone believes they know what is really going on in "Global Politics" - I ask you this...do you think those plastic pieces in Risk know what they are being moved around for? When you play Risk, do you take the time to sit the pieces down an explain to them what is going on? No - because they are insignificant in the planning and playing of the game. They could be replaced with dry corn pieces.

I'm sure whomever is playing the bigger game called "Earth" plays it the same way.

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

Yes, nice Jewish boys like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Oh, and those boys in the white headcloths that control the oil economy.

Psst...your swastika's showing...your comments are the same generalizations used by the Aryan Nation.

Well, I've been watching these "Terrorist attacks" slowly develop. First America creates the fighting force headed by Osama. Then they are in cahoots with the Bin Laden family. Then they are so in bed with Saudi Arabia that it's sick.....yet all the pilots during 9/11 were Saudi's??? I've seen attacks on the USS Cole and counter-attacks on Asprin Factories. I see American tanks trolling through the streets of countries that don't fly the American flag. I see support for Israel that brings about "hatred". I see all this happeneing without one courtroom trial. I see what the news tells me.

So where have I been in the last 10 years??? I think a better question is "what the hell is really going on here??". Where is the proof 9/11 was a Terrorist attack? Why does America keep funding certain wars? Why hasn't the average American citizen asked "why" concerning 9/11 instead of "go git 'em!!". If someone sucker-punched me in the face (well, that is what they make it out to be), I sure as hell would want to know why so I could prevent it again.

Well, not fiction - they really do happen, just not for the reasons we think.

Well, I don't actually feel any "group" is at fault. I'm not blaming anyone for anything - which is what I guess Aryans would do (I don't know....I'm not a regular at the "White Power" meeting in my town). Jewish, German, Polish, whatever - all I know is they have lots o' cash and like I said, money makes the world go 'round......oh, and it's the root of all evil also.

So, in my simple mind, I put two and two together and figure that it's Satan that is running the show right now. Not a big Bible reader, but doesn't it say something about him ruling the Earth for like 200 years? Let's be honest - we are supposed to be "good" right? Tell me, look around.....is there more "good" in this world or more "bad". Seems like an unfair question.

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

Yes - this is an exciting time - the future looks great.

I understand the comparison of "times" and how we, as a society are in "better" shape now, but......

I don't need a TV on to see how many stupid, arrogant, greedy, soul-less, manipulative, dishonest, cruel, and over-all BAD people are around me.

It's not the timeframe or history or collective output of a nation or the entire globe I find to be "bad".....it's the damn people! Not because of what they are doing - but rather because of what they are.

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

Is there more good or more bad? You're kidding, right? Turn off the television and look with your own eyes. By any rational measure - increasing wealth, longevity, freedom around the globe - as well as by irrational measures - feelings of joy and happiness and hope - I can say for certain, as one who has studied history, that not only is there is far more good than bad in the world, but that there is more good now than at any time in the past.

Oh, there are setbacks today of course. And, yes, there were happy accidents that made some past years better than most. But you must judge an age by its general tendencies, not its happy accidents. And the general tendencies we see today are almost wholly positive.

Sure, the Middle East is suffering through the last dying gasps of a doomed culture - like Europe did in the late 1700’s and early 1800's and America did in the 1860's (and 1960's). If you can't see the French Aristocrats or the Tory hard-liners of 1830's England or the loud-mouthed Alabama racists of 1961 in the radicals of the Middle East, you're not looking hard enough. Nobody likes change, and America's enemies in the Middle East are an absolutely predictable product of the transformation going on in that area and around the world. For that matter, the chaotic world situation is nothing so much as a return to normalcy after a 70 year (1914-1990) struggle between two powerful ideas on how countries should be run. This struggle gave clarity where today we see only confusion. But even this situation will not remain forever. China is today rising from centuries of cultural stagnation, and will likely pass US output in most mechanical and intellectual and cultural areas within our lifetimes. 50 years from now, Brittney Spears' cultural descendent may well hail from Shanghai.

So don't watch "Gladiator," instead read about the less glossy reality of Rome. Don't watch "Bill & Ted (even though it's a great movie), read about the reality of Athens during the time of Socrates. Look at the Dark Ages. Look at past famines. Look at past fears. Learn about the history of Medicine. Learn about the way people treated each other before the rule of law. H*ll, just look at all the uncertainties people faced up to in the century we just passed.
And then take an enlightened view of the world around you. Things are bad, but at the same time better than they've ever been. This mess you see around us is called life. And there is no peaceful time of plenty back there in the past except in works of the imagination.

Really? Maybe with a US-centric telescope. All those things you list on the increase are for a *very* small percentage of the world's population.

It's not the timeframe or history or collective output of a nation or the entire globe I find to be "bad".....it's the damn people! Not because of what they are doing - but rather because of what they are.

Yes, we all feel that way sometimes. There is much to loathe.....But that is true of all human cultures. BTW - Want to really hate mankind? Read Mark Twain's final short story "The Mysterious Stranger" - the original one, not the academically correct and recent one. If that doesn't make you contemplate giving over the world to the monkeys, nothing ever will.

Anyway, how does it help me that Society/Biology/Culture/etc. is slowly advancing when my life is not? Or when I've suffered a tragedy? Or when I die too young? That's where modern Western Culture and Reason fail us - just at the point when we need a deep answer. After that, Religion or Philosophy (Western or not) take over. Or despair and fear come into being.

I think we can improve our personal lives and places and characters. But I also believe I may get hit by a bus. How we tolerate this absurd human condition is quite a mystery.....

Do I order the brain implant chips from Satan, or from the rich jewish Germans? I'm so confused, and this thread has reached ludicrous speed.

Really? Maybe with a US-centric telescope. All those things you list on the increase are for a *very* small percentage of the world's population.

I agree and also disagree. We've certainly had the lion's share of good fortune. And today many places are still without much hope or improvement. But one need only look at India or Ireland or Eastern Europe to see what can be and is being done. I see the likelihood of improved lives everywhere in 50 or 75 years because of historical forces gathering together in support of those who are still living brief and brutal lives.

In the short run, of course, selfish economic forces always seem to win. And, yes, the smaller people in politics and business will do all they can to command the coming waves to recede. But you can't stop improvement forever - the greater and deeper economic forces will come out and assert themselves. So someday factories in Central America/Asia will be unionized and working conditions will be softened. Someday a combination of local leaders and worried consumers will change the very worst habits of today's corporations (Mc-hormone-free chicken? Constant moral pressure against sweatshop labor).

All this leads to more money and more leisure in areas that today can only be described as bleak and bankrupt. And that leads to education, and inventiveness, and better prospects in every sense.

Look at our own experience. Our American ancestors "conquered" the Indians. Took their land, outlawed their idols, and wrote them off. But I doubt there would be an environmental movement without their spirit having been here. Perhaps slavery is more akin to what we see in the world today, and you know how that ended in 1860-65. Things do not remain out of balance forever.

The growing imbalance we see between rich and poor will resolve itself someday. I hope that reason and enlightened self-interest will find they are closely related to charity, and that things will improve peacefully. But such imbalance has ended in bloodshed before.....

Actually Bill - the "brainchips" won't have to be ordered. ID chips WILL be in your hand before your time passes.

Joke all you want, but this is what I feel is happening.

The thought of super-rich people, who have money passed on to them from the original Bankers, running the show IS a very far-fetched one...sorry. Who could ever imagine money making people do evil things? That's so silly.

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

Rick, you have a very positive outlook. I don't share it. Niether does my editor, who is from India. And isn't Cork suffering from fairly serious unemployment? I don't see how the "rich get richer, poor get poorer" is going to resolve itself. Seems it's been running the opposite direction for all this time...

I read somewhere that if we redistributed all the wealth of the world equally to each human beings, it would take only two years to get back to the present situation. It seems to me that greed is an exponential function, or a thermodynamic necessity, very much like entropy :rolleyes:

Aurel

You order the chips from the Trilateral comissions. Satan programs them, and the jewish germans collect royalties.

Please try to keep up...

Nostatic, you may be interested in reading This link

I just started reading it, so I cannot comment yet. Looks interesting.

Aurel

I guess you missed the part where the US lost its credibility by unilaterally going to war on false pretenses.

I would wager the US would gain a lot of credibility by engaging in less warmongering and trying to work WITH the other governments and peoples of the world to make it a safer and freer place.

While it looks like the current British regime is going down in flames thanks to backing Bush's debacle I suspect that Bush will possibly get his ass saved by some 'last minute discoveries' in Bagdad or Afganistan.

Just imagine how bad our current regime will look if he sqeaks by another election thanks to evidence that later turns out to be fishy or fake AFTER the election.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a 1984ish future where the main difference is that instead of 'big brother' we have big business.

any aftermarket versions available for my car???

you guys have waaaay too much time on your hands :D

WOW... is all I can say.

It's like we need an "Off Topic, Off Topic" board.

Great stuff here. Did not have to read any newspaper blab this morning.

Keep it up guys!

Rick, you have a very positive outlook. I don't share it. Niether does my editor, who is from India. And isn't Cork suffering from fairly serious unemployment? I don't see how the "rich get richer, poor get poorer" is going to resolve itself. Seems it's been running the opposite direction for all this time...

I'll admit it: it's possible my positive outlook is misguided - after all I just got back from a few days of hiking in Yosemite, and how can you feel negative after seeing such wonders? :)

But I think that even when I come back down to reality, and see that the 1st world and the 3rd world are growing both closer and farther apart - closer in a real working sense (corporate ties, travel, interconnectedness) and farther apart in a financial sense (we keep getting richer while they are either moving slower, keeping still, or actually losing ground), I think of this as proof - not of the fact that we will keep diverging forever, but instead that only so much pain can be inflicted before a day of reckoning must occur.

This has always been so. I cannot think of a problem that has existed from day 1 and remained unaddressed. The reason is that people can put up with annoyances, but always there comes a time when a problem becomes too great.

Many times these great problems have been fixed peacefully (or semi-peacefully). The Gracchi of Rome noticed inequality and began land reforms. The House of Commons in England voted away slavery and noticed electoral and financial iniquity and so enfranchised voters to greater and greater degrees during the 1800's. American men voted to allow women to vote, and then forced the enforcement of many existing laws prohibiting discrimination. South Africa, the Soviet Union.... All of these improvements were imperfect - and some remain tarnished to this day - but they were still improvements.

Some other great problems have been addressed by violence: The severe inequalities in France, Russia and China were overthrown by the people. The violent end of American slavery came, and at great cost. Franz Fanon wrote a book, and bam! within a short time the Europeans are out of Africa. I can think of no time when great problems persisted without end.

But still, doesn't today's world kind of....suck? Yes. We are living through a near repeat of the late 1800's; when old laws could not keep up with the power of the new corporations; when Robber Baron's increased their fortunes on the backs of overworked serfs and children. Because of this I believe our generation and the next are in for some tough times. But what happens then? After all the factories are overseas? After all the mid level computer managers live in Bangalore? Will they sit still and be content with pay measured in peanuts forever? Not likely. And after the corporations employ across the whole world, where else do they have to go? In 50 years, there will be no cheap labor - cheaper maybe, but not cheap. Even prefessionals will band together if CEO's keep it up. Today doctors are uniting against insurance companies (usually illegal today - as was collective bargaining of workers in the distant past).

If this is 1890, then 2040 seems a good bet for the increasing power of the people. Down the road from there? One world currency? One world government? Not in our lifetime maybe, but these too are now inevitible because of technology - why should someone make a profit off of currency fluctuations? or be able to flout Civilized (in the best sense) norms because he employs across an invisible border?

Think of the changes in our own nation. When I was in Yosemite, my grandfather was much on my mind as he had hiked the same area 80 years ago. He passed away this past summer just short of his 101st birthday. When I thought about the changes he saw in his life - from an agrarian California on the edge of nowhere to one of the largest economies in the world; the right of women to vote, the enforcement of racial equality before the law - I felt hopeful.

Maybe it was just the thin air.....But I hope - and on a good day I actually believe - that things will improve if we all do what we can....

Wow RickC, great post and my thoughts exactly.

If you look at the totality of history, things have been getting generally better but only due to the difficult strugle of an activist citizenry to correct problems.

Just look at how much the civil rights movement was able to achieve in only 20 - 50 years.

Change is never peaceful or easy.