Interesting radial engine

Decolliber · 11-12-2003, 10:22 AM

http://www.cke-tech.com/RE_animation.htm

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-12-2003, 11:04 AM

"Every 300 miles, just fill it up with oil and top off the gas."

Oh wait, that's P&W radials...

Decolliber · 11-12-2003, 11:07 AM

why no radial engines in cars?
I assume this one is air cooled?

Moses · 11-12-2003, 11:18 AM

Isn't this the same design as the old airplane motors?

Moses · 11-12-2003, 11:23 AM

This is the Wright J-5 engine that powered the Spirit of St. Louis on it's transatlantic flight.

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-12-2003, 12:29 PM

Old aircraft radials actually spin around a common crank (engine==flywheel). This thing looks like it would be mounted stationary to the aircraft and the pickaxe-looking counterweight handles flywheel duties.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
This is the Wright J-5 engine that powered the Spirit of St. Louis on it's transatlantic flight.

I never get over that stuff you have laying around in your garage Moses.

-Chris

Pete Pranger · 11-12-2003, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
Old aircraft radials actually spin around a common crank (engine==flywheel). This thing looks like it would be mounted stationary to the aircraft and the pickaxe-looking counterweight handles flywheel duties.

Actually, "the radial engine consists of a row, or rows, of cylinders arranged radially about a central crankcase." FAA EA-AC 65-12A. There was a radial type engine that was called a "rotary" engine where the cylinders rotated aroung a fixed crankshaft. As you can imagine, this presented some unusual mechanical problems as well as a huge gyroscopic effect. It did not prosper.

I flew a few radials years ago, the R-985 (DeHavilland Otter, Beech-18), 1830(DC-3), 2000(DC-4) and 2800(CV-340). Awesome engines, awesome airplanes. If they didn't leak oil, they were empty. The convair had a 38 gallon oil tank (per side) if I remember correctly. We carried A LOT of oil with us usually 20 gallons per trip. Fun, but I wouldn't trade it for 37,000' and .78m..........

Pete

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-12-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete Pranger
Actually, "the radial engine consists of a row, or rows, of cylinders arranged radially about a central crankcase." FAA EA-AC 65-12A. There was a radial type engine that was called a "rotary" engine where the cylinders rotated aroung a fixed crankshaft. As you can imagine, this presented some unusual mechanical problems as well as a huge gyroscopic effect. It did not prosper.

Er...yes, I said "old aircraft radials" but should have said "rotaries"....I stand corrected on that point. However WWI showed plenty of rotary use. Visit Rhinebeck, NY sometime.

Quote:

If they didn't leak oil, they were empty. The convair had a 38 gallon oil tank (per side) if I remember correctly. We carried A LOT of oil with us usually 20 gallons per trip.

Hence my P&W crack earlier. Some friends at Honeywell (nee AlliedSignal) have wayyyyy too much experience with those...there are more homebuilders and pilots per capita in that company than any other that I know of...

Pete Pranger · 11-12-2003, 03:03 PM

Didn't mean to step on your toes................my apologies if I offended.

I have only seen pictures of Rhinebeck, but there are some beautiful airplanes up there. Personally, I can't imagine what one of those rotaries must have handled like.

Is anyone over there at Honeywell doing a Skybolt? I am this close to buying the tubing, I just don't know where I will do it. Buy a new house I guess.

Pete

BlueSkyJaunte · 11-12-2003, 05:44 PM

Offended???? Not at all...I should've been more specific.

I've been to Rhinebeck 3 or 4 times...and every time it's a treat. Haven't been there in years, though. Supposedly the gyroscopic effect of the rotary made it possible to turn those crates on a dime...having seen them at R. makes me believe it!

I'll ask around about a Skybolt. One guy I know does only mini-Mustangs, for whatever reason.

For a long time I was fixated on building a Europa but then life got in the way.

I guess I'll have to stick with P-cars for the time being.

MFAFF · 11-13-2003, 12:39 AM

Rotary engines give great manoeuverability, in the same direction as the gyrpscopic effects.....

Pretty tough to go against them though.

The biggest issues was the lack of fine throttle control that they have, as I recall its either on or off.....no great as power increases...

The vibration was also a reall problem in creating a 'stable' weapons platform, after all that's what aircraft were required to do.

They were however very simple to build and service and need little skill in operation.

There was a radial engined car, was it a pre war Tatra or Ludwincka (?) designed compact., similar in time to the original Porsche designed Beetle.

In car use the greatest difficulty is getting even cooling airflow to the cylinders. In aircraft they are mounted a 90 degress to direction of travel, could pose a problem on a car.....The car mounted ones were lying flat at the back with ducting, not idea.

The flat arrangement was easier to cool andprovided a much lower crankshaft line....

Great engines though. Someobdy once 'joked' that they were oil fired and petrol cooled.......

emwporsche · 11-17-2003, 12:45 AM

I don't know anything about radial engines but,
just by looking at the animation, I can't help but wonder:
Wouldn't the center heat up excessively?

exc911ence · exc911ence's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete Pranger
I flew a few radials years ago, the R-985 (DeHavilland Otter, Beech-18)

Oops!

The Beaver had the R985, the Otter was equipped with the R1340. I doubt the 985 could get an Otter off of the step, let alone into the air!

Pete Pranger · 11-17-2003, 05:11 PM

D'oh!!

Give that man a prize. I'm going to blame that mistake on the 14 years or so since I was in the otter.

The one we had was on a pair of B-18 floats though.......... Nothing like step taxiing that thing as far as I was concerned, but the cowling was like a jigsaw puzzle, no sir, I didn't like that cowling at all. One of our competitors had a turbine powered otter, man that thing looked good ( I think it was a PT-6 but I really don't remember).

As far as the center section heating up, it's really not an issue. The heat is centralized around the combustion chambers and cylinders just like on a flat 6. Any heat build up there (the center)is taken care of by the oil.

Pete