Being a landlord

ronb · 12-31-2003, 09:49 AM

I know a bunch on this board are landlords of residential properties.

I'm a partner in a few frame houses in Western Massachussets that we divided into apartments and have rented. I have had very fine tenants, until this past August, when I got the proverbial tenant from hell...130 emails later, I still don't know what to do with this one, other than to reply patiently. But it is beginning to really aggravate me.

I will of course not be renewing her lease, but she - a (nonpracticing) attorney - is constantly threatening me with this that or the other thing, to the point where I said, fine, let's get the housing authority in here, and we'll see if it's a vermin infested fire trap, or a decent apartment in a very nice part of town.

Any general thoughts on the psychology of how to deal with a very difficult tenant other than what I've been doing? (ie responding to every document or request with either a reply or the appropriate reaction) Help...

pwd72s · 12-31-2003, 09:55 AM

No advice, just sympathy. One of the happiest days of my life was when I sold a rental house.

singpilot · 12-31-2003, 10:23 AM

Make sure that when you get the request for a reference in the future, simply say they are NOT eligible to re-rent from you.

Hugh R · 12-31-2003, 10:35 AM

You can't discriminate based on race, religion, national origin, but it doesn't say anything about occupation.

cowtown · 12-31-2003, 11:15 AM

Several freinds of mine who rent property just won't rent to attorneys. Period.

Hugh R · 12-31-2003, 11:32 AM

I sold a house to an attorney once, and then he sued me for everything that I disclosed. It turns out, disclosing doesn't prevent you from being sued. Swore I'd never settle, then the lawyer and expert witness fees start strip mining your bank account and you end up giving the POS $ to just go away before you have to take out a second or third mortgage to fund the lawsuit defense. Never, never sell anything to an attorney.

Icemaster · Icemaster's Garage

Only applies to Ohio, but:

Unless they're late on the rent or grossly violate the lease, you're pretty much stuck. I've had similar experiences with tenants, all I can tell you to do is to document document document. Respond each time, however there's nothing sez you can't make life as difficult for them as they are for you.

Example:

"we want you to paint the apartment 'cause we're worried about lead paint and the kids..."

"Sure, I'd be glad to do so. However since I or the painter can't accept any liability for your posessions during construction, you'll have to move out for a month while it's being painted. Don't worry, I'll only charge you half a months rent during that time."

Easier than trying to explain to them that the apartment had been painted two months prior - before they moved in.

Look for any loophole that you can use - don't let the lawyer aspect get in your face, that's what most of them live on. There's nothing to say you can't offer her the deposit back if she wants to move out. I've done that too. Just get and do everything in writing.

Oh, and call your lawyer as well.

turbo6bar · 12-31-2003, 01:56 PM

Don't let your ego affect your decision making.
Be professional, but firm.
Do whatever it takes to make peace, because this will help you sleep at night. I feel confident you can last another 6-8 months. Do not let the tenant's aggravation consume your personal life.

If this profession was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Good luck,
jürgen

Big Ed · 12-31-2003, 01:56 PM

Ron,

You are pretty much stuck, as you've guessed. Our laws here in MA are so tenant friendly that she can be as much of a pain as she would like. I'm also a central/western MA landlord (Athol, Templeton, Gardner -- where are yours?), and can sympathize. At the very least, it's emails and not phone calls, which I think are more obnoxious.

My worst one ever was last year, tenant for total of 8 months paid me $2750 in rents, but cost $6000 in legal, attorney, and movers fees to get rid of. Left the once nice apartment in shambles too. But I digress...

My philospohy would be to return all emails approximately 1 week after receipt. Not ignoring you, (and of course address any actual problems more promptly), but unwilling to be held captive to the email barrage.

Good luck.

Jay Auskin · 12-31-2003, 02:01 PM

Sounds like you're stuck with the person, but you don't have to make any response unless you feel you're in some sort of violation. If you follow the rules, let them yap away...then don't renew the lease.

I only rent out a parking space...the person's car doesn't complain too much.

dad911 · 12-31-2003, 04:19 PM

Best thing I ever did was sell my residential rental properties. Commercial tenants are great, they keep paying rent even if they vacate early.

john70t · 12-31-2003, 04:57 PM

Being fair, honest, understanding, and patient is the best policy for tenant and landlord alike, but there are those greedy/neurotic people to deal with.
Meet with your tenant before and give them the grill first to see how they really respond. Who knows, the appartment could have been rented already.
State boldly in the least that month to month after lease expiration is not an option(state law may have precidence over this though). Document with video every fixture/wall/carpet beforehand so there's no question of reasonable wear-and-tear.
Fix everything that needs to be fixed, this will not only give peace of mind but is deductable and increases property value.
Talk to them on the phone every 3 months to see how everything is going, and view the appartment a month before lease expires.
Work with them and be flexable within reason.

In your case, I'd get a restraining order, send a bill for yor time, give 24 hours notice and then document the decrepid state she's kept the place in. Find out where she works, report undocumented income to the IRS, and sue to recover your attorneys fees. Play her game better than her if it's worth it per hour. Be nice to all the nice people, the others....

Dantilla · 01-01-2004, 09:13 AM

I am a landlord.

Number one: Know the landlord/tennant laws for your area.

Number one: The best way to loose a bad tennant is to not rent to them in the first place. My screening standards are very high, and they are in writing. Either you qualify, or you don't. Everybody goes through the same proccess, everything is documented. This keeps everybody from discussing things in front of a judge.

Something to get BEFORE you begin: Buy the book "Landlording" by Leigh Robinson. It's available through Amazon, and answers about every question imaginable, in a very easy reading style. Lots of great ideas, and lots of sample forms to use.

I am not afraid of attorneys. I sold my first house to an attorney. No problems. I have rented to attorneys. No problems. Some people are jerks, and smell easy targets. If they quickly learn that you know what you're doing, and are not afraid of them, they know they are wasting time with you, and begin behaving themselves. Worst case scenario, any attorney who is renting doesn't want to go up against my attorney, who is a partner at one of the biggest law firms in town.

Sometimes people need to be told the facts of life. You have to be careful what you say when giving references for former tennants. The three standard questions can be answered with a simple yes or no, so there is no "opinion" of a former tennant that could be construed as slander.
-Did they pay the rent on time? Yes or no.
-Were there any complaints about them from other tennants?
And here's the biggie-
-Would you rent to them again in the future?

If you say no, that is a simple fact. They can argue "Hey- I always paid my rent on time" or anything else they want, but you are only answering a simple question truthfully. Would I rent again to you? No way. Enough said. Have a nice life. The thought of having a bad recomendation is enough to make some people behave.

Good luck, and a drive through some twisty roads in the Porsche is good therapy now and then.

Moneyguy1 · 01-01-2004, 06:15 PM

Renting to an Attorney? Gawd..I won't even associate with those bottom feeders.......Public Sector attys excepted.....

Jack Olsen · 01-02-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronb
...I will of course not be renewing her lease, but...

Can you do that in your state? Here in California, the laws are very strict about kicking a tenant out. Lease or no, they can pretty much stay as long as they want, so long as they pay the rent.

The 'know your local laws' bit is great advice. Like Paul, I was thrilled when we sold our rental property. It can be a tough way to earn a buck.

On the other hand, we sold it to a pair of attorneys, and they were a pleasure from beginning to end.

ronb · 09:49 AM

Thanks for all the replies - they've really helped me retain calmness.
My rentals are in Great Barrington Mass; location though is not terribly important to this 'situation' - it's more that this tenant actually wants a valet and a servant, ie if there's 1/2" of snow, and I'm not out there shovelling the walkway, then we must have this adjudicated before the housing authority (the tenant who normally would just sweep the walk even though it's not in the rental contract, is away for a month).

The bigger picture is that this is a person who doesn't have an understanding of what the SOCIAL contract is in this world...and there are a lot of people out there like that (road ragers for example). She refuses for instance to let servicemen into her house to repair the tiny things she's complained about; I must be there so the heating co can come in and adjust the spitting valve on her radiator. Not an example of someone who knows how to get along in the bigger world; only in her own, where everything is done for you, like in an hotel. Despite what the lease may or may not say, there are some common courtesies, on both sides, but unfortunately in this case, it was only from my direction to her.

So, my big error in renting to her, which I fully acknowledge - not doing enough of a background check (FYI - she did not disclose she was an attorney until after signing the lease).

In the end, and with support from all these replies, I do think that if and when we are in front of magistrate, 130 emails about 'vermin' (there was the usual Berkshire fall ladybug swarm inside, as well as a few hornets), hysterical emails about the front door lock and security etc, that I'll come out ok. Of course there will be some penalties or other fines assessed or whatever, but nothing compared to the penalty of getting bothered by a crazy person.

Oh - and here's some Porsche content - when she saw I had a Porsche, her entitlement attitude stiffened even further - eg why should a yoga going, crunchy Berkshire county layabout (unquote, but not to me), have this symbol of affluence. Etc. And...several times (it's a very small town) by dint of her being a bad driver, I have had to - take evasive action - she's cut me off or not let me merge - I hope not intentionally. But she IS a bad driver, 2 fender benders in the 4 months she's been here. Not to mention when I've been on my bicycle (and, like the P-car, everyone knows my town going bike (eg grocery panniers usually full) I've had to also take evasive action way onto the shoulder.

Anyway - all is well, so thanks again...back to trying my first valve job...