Cool:

Concentric nailed it. Weapons are enmasse everywhere. I'm looking at my desk right now and see oodles of weaponry. I'm actually typing this "reply" with a weapon.

There was a Hitchcock movie (can't remember the name), where a wife killed her husband with a leg of lamb. That was a weapon. Plus the investigating authorities were invited over to "dispense of the evidence" for dinner. Dinner and a weapon in one sitting - who would have thought?

Guns are super sexy instruments. They are terribly dangerous whether used properly or improperly, plus they're tantilizing when strapped to a garter belt as in a James Bond film. Explosive, intimidating, sexual and everyone who has ever held one has either withered or been empowered by them.

Take that definition of firepower and let the media get all over it, and viola, you have your preconceived notion of the violence of guns. Personally, I don't buy that at all. Particularly since I could probably kill a man with my desk chair or three-hole punch.

when i was 13 i watched my dad get shot at a gas station while i was sitting in the car, he did have a gun. which is why i feel so strongly

blue: i am sorry that i am not as perfect as you are. the reason i had the room mate was for money to help pay the rent. if i were you i would have realised he was a freak just by the way he combed his hair. God i wish i could be as good as you: i could sound smart, always be right, brag about everything to prove i am better then everone, look cool, kick everyones ass and if i couldnt kick their ass i could always shoot them!!!. so i say go into the world make it a saferplace for all of us i promise i will never thank you for it; as i dont want or need your help. oh and by the way you show some resemblence to the urban cowboy.

actually after him i chose to have no more room mates!

the diffrence between some guy with a gun and you (in my experience) is that the "bad guy" usually holds no value to his life so he is willing to die in order to get what he wants.

so to those of you i have pissed off i aplogise
its just my opinion

LATE
K

You don't seem to have any exposure to target shooting in any of its many and varied forms. I not only carry a pistol for protection I enjoy sports shooting. Try it.

Pepperspray. I have first hand experience from having been accidently sprayed with it. It is my understanding that the original Smith and Wesson Mace was stronger. I have had some training on self protection and have some familiarity with options available. Thankfully I have not been raped but I have been on the receiving end of violence first hand.

Permits to carry for defense are hard to obtain in Italy where I live, the fact that my husband, my daughter and I all have them is because we can demonstrate a requirement for protection beyond what the police can provide. As I stated in an earlier post on this thread, if I had been armed in a situation a life would have been saved, this was not in a dark alley it was in my home. I don't intend to post the details here. Since then defensive pistols have been used in my immediate family, the police did not pursue it.

Sounds to me like you can get along very well kicking peoples asses . . ."duking it out".

While that is a nice advantage, which you have over others, it won't last forever. So I do imagine you will be getting a gun in the future. After all, its got to piss you off, that you currently couldn't kick Isabos but. . .if she dis'd your GF. :cool:

Ok concentric.....I do respect your comments and will admit I'm at work and I do not have the time to effectively research this at this point, but I do promise you I will find statistics as well as researching at yours. I admit I never looked at the statistics of crimes prevented as a result of a honest law-abiding citizen having a handgun.

However, I never needed a handgun to thwart a crime either.

I so desparately want to hear from all of you gun proponents who feel it's wise to carry a gun with you, it's the only way you will survive in this cold, cruel world...

Do any, ANY of you have a story in which your gun saved your life and if you didn't have it, you would be dead, maimed, permanently disfigured, etc. I haven't heard of one instance in all these threads where a gun was used productively....it has been all stories of others using their guns unlawfully or someone was accidently injured/killed because of a handgun. Did you hold it up to a would-be burglar and he ran in fear? was someone raping your wife and you shot his foot off? does anyone have a story? Everyone here defends the need for one but no one here (thus far) as demonstrated how effective that need was. I am really curious....

Blue, you seem like you are a very hateful person. God help the person who comes across you and your "gun." It appears you would fly off the handle with the smallest provocation (shoot, you're threatening slakjaw with bodily harm in a THREAD!!!!!!!, wow what a joke).

Just as a statisitical point, most criminals hold a high value on their life, otherwise crime prevention through personal defense would be useless.

I have a friend that seems to attract and care for persons who have violent SOs or family members. His standard method of solving these problems involves a little chat with the offender which insinuates ownership of a backhoe, access to tons of unwalked desert, and a desire to dig said offender a new home that the coyotes can't unbury if disrespectful/violent behavior doesn't cease immediately. I have never seen this system fail yet. I don't recommend this approach as being appropriate, but it (and other personal experiences) seems to disprove your axiom.

Jason

It seems that the most aggressive and violent posters are the ones who are anti-gun. Perhaps we should be grateful they're antigun;)

As far as "duking it out like a man" goes, why should I want to? If someone has a different point of view, that is their privilege, If someone seeks to impose it physically or attempt to use force on me then I will respond with whatever "equalisers" are at hand and a handgun is still the best defensive option. Further, not all those at risk are men.

crime prevention through personal defense would be useless.

in my experience it was useless

I can only imagine the trauma you described and went through. You've dealt with and used it to develop your view on the subject. We obviously disagree on this matter.

Do you have a solution that could be applied in the real world, where criminals always have access to weapons and we are not all physically equal and the police cannot guarantee our safety in our own homes, never mind on the streets?

My solution is that I want the right to defend myself with my means of choice which I would have the right to carry without question and without having to justify the choice of means. It is not a utopian solution but I am not living in an ideal world

Ohmi I missed somehow a lot of posts....

I will respond after 5 p.m. CST to isabo, blue, RickM so that I may properly research backup for my views...

but here's a little quick research for RickM

"Rubin v. Johnson, an Indiana appeals court held that a pawnshop could be liable in damages for selling a handgun in violation of a state law barring sales to someone whom the seller "has reasonable cause to believe . . . is of unsound mind."[9] The pawnshop sold an assault pistol to a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who said he wanted it for hunting. The plaintiff's expert testified that the gun was unsuitable for hunting. The buyer may have commented during the purchase that the "streets were getting bad," and he had acted erratically during earlier visits to the shop. Six months after the purchase, the buyer shot and killed David Johnson, whose family brought suit against the pawnshop."

"In one Virginia case, the family of a shooting victim alleged that a gun-shop clerk sold a MAC-11 assault pistol to a 15-year-old boy who had used his adult cousin as a "straw purchaser."[11] The use of compliant adult proxies is a common means for minors and other prohibited buyers to obtain weapons. The jury awarded $105,000 to the victim's family, an award that was not appealed. The potential liability of dealers for facilitating straw sales promises to inhibit this practice."

"The legal theory supporting retailer liability for sales to minors was explored in Crown v. Raymond.[12] The case involved a handgun sale to a 17-year-old girl who had presented a driver's license on which her age had obviously been altered. The next day, the girl committed suicide with the gun. Her family sued the dealer. The trial court granted summary judgment to the dealer, finding that the suicide was not a reasonably foreseeable result of the illegal sale. The Arizona Court of Appeals reversed, ruling that the gun dealer's violation of state law forbidding sales to minors could be negligence per se."

You say it's "difficult" to get a gun...I beg to differ. Yes, there are laws in place, but they are not enforced until after the fact.

oh wait RickM, they are not enforced.

There are too many variables in what you want to hear, Cool. Can a stick do the damage of a gun? Yes. I've seen sticks go through men...and kill them. The gun, however, if it is the first thing available, and one is trained to use it, will probably be picked over a knife, a digital alarm clock, or flashlight hidden under the bed.

Point two: who said anything about killing? In ballistics, there's a term called "stopping power." Usually, that involves just what the term means: to stop. I don't believe many gun owners have an intent to kill, but merely to stop. But bullets cause horrible damaged when fired into a living being. More often than not, the results are death from (again) variables of the damage.

Guns and gun ownership is almost an enigma to me. It's like Porsche ownership. My question to you would be, "Why do you own a Porsche if you're not going to race it?" Now how narrow does that sound. You own it for various reasons not just its intended reason as a high performance machine intended to go very fast and corner very quickly. Guns don't just kill. They are admired, they shoot targets, etc.

As an aside, and not that he needs my defense, Blue sounds anything but hateful. If you said "wry" then you're correct. But "hateful," "flying off the handle," etc? Threatening bodily harm? Where's all that implied?

I wonder at all if you shouldn't be working instead of splitting your work hours trying to concentrate on a thread with a serious topic.

:confused:

So what's the alternative? Just let "it" happen to you?

Are you ruling out all personal defense?

Personal defense is a "reaction" too. Someone "criminally" throws their hands at your face and you raise your hands to deflect a perceived punch, that's personal defense. Think of it: you could save your nose, if not your wallet and your life.

1) If you knew me and weren't projecting your own biases into my writing, you wouldn't say that. I have been asked to "throw down" quite a few times and have always politely declined.

2) Can you read??? I never said any such thing and never threatened anyone.

and another thought RickM

what little regulation that has been put in place (e.g., the Brady Bill) was massively fought and opposed for YEARS by the NRA. An honest law-abiding balanced NRA member should have no problem waiting 7 days for a license. Any teeny bit of effort to ensure sane people have guns and kept out of "undersirables" hands will always be fought by the NRA.

Why is everyone dissing slakjaw. Don't you see his point? By the way, I knew a lawyer who couldn't spell his way out of a box if he had a gun to his head......and he went to law school, obtained his JD and passed the bar. Lack of spelling ability isn't necessarily a lack of intelligence. It's like you don't care to argue your point, you just want to pick on slakjaw.

Slakjaw, I'm truly sorry to hear about your experience with your father, and especially at such a young age. If there were something I could do to spare people of such things I would do so in a heartbeat.

As for the rest of your diatribe, well, I won't bother.

Additionally, earlier, you mentioned an aversion to persons utilizing weapons for self-defense because you perceive that they are trying to "control" others. While I hear what you're saying, slakjaw, I sincerely believe that persons that are unable to control themselves need to be controlled. Obviously this should be done in a constructive manner if possible, but that option is not always available. I don't carry personally (mostly for convenience reasons), but I support efforts by my fellow citizens to protect the innocent and maintain a society based on respect and decency.

Jason

cool,

waiting periods and gun registration are a thread in their own right.

Why are you so anti.gun?

Please let us have your alternatives to the handgun for protection or do you sincerely believe you don't need it or that you are protected by the police.

Why should I have to wait 5 days to buy a gun? Do you have a mandatory waiting period for speaking your mind, hiring defense counsel, telling the police they can't search your home without a warrant, refusing to inriminate yourself or.....horrors....buying a car, which is a far more lethal tool and responsible for more deaths than any gun? BTW, all of those are Const. rights, except for driving a car. If the laws are not enforced, that's not my fault. VA was the first state to implement the instant check system, they prosecute gun crimes here with a hard on and there's no parole. No criminal ever had to submit to a background check or a waiting period. Why should I?