lorenfb's problem

[ben parrish]

It is not my nature to dislike anyone, butt...I am really tired of this guy bashing everyone on any subject. His posts remind me of some little brat who was never accepted by any group so he spends his time trying to elevate his stature by demeaning everyone else. Perhaps no one ever told him that "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar". He is really bringing down the professional and courteous nature of this discussion board. I will personally not spend one more minute reading any of his negative B.S., and I suggest that all others follow suit. Maybe he will go away and infect other boards with his negative comments and unprofessional nature. Any one else feel the same way?

[pwd72s]

While I think Loren should lighten up a bit, perhaps adapt more of Warren's "teacher" mode instead of slamming those who don't know what they're writing about, I welcome his tech comments. The guy knows his stuff!

[Wil Ferch]

I too would like a more centrist approach...

See my responses here...on a recent thread...

Porsche 3.2 DME Performance Mystery

---Wil Ferch

[Jim Richards]

ben, I've found the board's "Ignore List" a very useful tool for dealing with the small population of Pelicans whose inputs I no longer have any interest in. This may be a better approach than trying to rally the troops against someone. Still, I understand how these frustrations can occur.

[ben parrish]

Agreed, but knowledge is useless without the ability to communicate with others. By the way Wil, have you seen his last reply to your post about SSI's. Not exactly a professional, educated response and this is where the problem lies.

[Embs]

Ben your going way OT. If you have a problem with Loren, PM him or email him. This isn't a beauty or popularity contest nor is it high school (perhaps a moderator or two would disagree ).


When it comes to Motronics/electronics Loren will take you to school and leave you in the first grade. Do this: sit back, watch the people who are clueless argue with no REAL data, quoting impossible HP claims. Real HP costs big money, don't be a sucker for cheap non-existent HP.


Loren is fact based, he knows what is talking about or he doesn't comment.

[ben parrish]

Thanks to all on your comments of taking the higher road. It always helps to have others remind you not to take things to an unprofessional level. I admit that he is an informed, educated resource about electronics and I am sure he has the ability to help many of us that are willing to use factual data instead of "perceived" results. I just believe in communicating effectively. My apologies for being out of line.

[dd74]

Initially, I would become upset with Loren's posts. Now, it seems he speaks more truth than offenses. But then sometimes the truth is offensive.

In the post Wil refers to, Loren seems to say an unmodified 911 engine is probably safer and more reliable when a modified 911 engine is considered. At least that's what I get from it.

All in all, I think that's good advice. Personally, I've grown to enjoy Loren's posts. If I were ever to get a 3.2, I'd definitely consider what he has to say even as he might be a little like a Tabs of the 911 Technical Forum.

[Peter Kelly]

I think Loren has a great deal of knowledge but trouble accurately communicating this knowledge (without getting condescending).

For example, his discssions regarding chips imply but never explicitly state an issue with them that is a pet peve of mine, which is: it is impossible for anyone setting up a map for a chip to "get it exactly right" without quantitative feedback on the engine'e performance. This is (at a minimum) having accurate wide band air-fuel ratio vs RPM data and more preferably, A-F and dyno run data.
Now you can make an improvement on some maps based on experience, but it is simply imposssible to get it close to exactly right without doing multiple iterations using real data as feedback. I know because I have done it (many times).

[Laura-Hergesheimer MotorS]

Re: Loren

You commented about frustration, I believe the tone and content of Loren's post shows his frustration. He is a very intelligent individual that knows the electronics on these cars very well. He runs a very successful business providing his service to the automobile industry which rely on his expertise and factual testing and results. Mark and I, along with many other shop owners have had numerous conversations about what the general public perceives about a product or modification, and what actual results may or may not occur. Many popular products and or modifications just cannot deliver everything promised or may cause a residual effect that can be damaging.

Everyone has an opinion, and Loren's opinions may be considered, blunt, condenscending, even bashing, but I believe he feels he has done more research, diagnosis and testing than many who frequent the board. In his way, I believe Loren is trying to educate us and share his knowledge, but as happens with many engineers, something gets lost in the translation.

TO Loren: Reread your posts after your done and remember you are not dealing with techs that work on hundreds of cars a year, many here only deal with their own personal vehicle and their personal experience.

TO members: If your interested in his comments, read them, if not, just pass over and delete them. Sift the information like we all do with many posts.

Personally, I have learned alot from the guy, he always tries to answer my questions, (sometimes I have to use Mark as an interpreter) but there are some times that our opinions may differ based on information we may have acquired.

The exchange of ideas and opinins are what make many of us return to the board day after day and there is a wealth of information shared.

Laura
Hergesheimer MotorSports

[Jeff Alton]

I really do not like Loren's "tone" in some of his posts. However, I also do not think that forums or email or even letters for that matter are a good way to judge someone's "tone" or attitude. These ways of communication leave a lot to be desired. They do not include voice intonation or body language- two very important pieces of the whole com. picture.

Now, in the past I have a had a negative reaction, so to speak, to a couple of his statements and conveyed that feeling in some posts. But, he is clearly quite knowledgeable about the subject and his latest post seems to indicate that he is gaining some experience in the comm department as well.

So, read the posts for the technical content and not the delivery style, and we should all be okay.

I have seen some posts where he helped people sort out some problems, so he is an asset to this board. If he offends you, turn the other cheek.

Just my discounted CDN 2 cents.
Thanks for your time, Jeff.

[Harold_89_911]

I see this board as a tremendous resource of information on the cars we like. Loren is one of the critical pieces of this puzzle. From what I’ve read, few are as knowledgeable of the DME system and I therefore value his participation in the board. He has given me great advice in the past and hope he will continue to participate in the future.

As to the tone of his post, read between the lines and look for the info he gives. Not everybody needs to be everybody’s best friend.

[Jim Richards]

After reviewing the posts on this off-topic topic, I observed a curious phenomenom. Opinions about this fella degrade as you move further away from his home base (California). So, what's that about?

[tabs]

Maybe he is tired of suffering with fools. In other words he knows his stuff backwards and forewards, and gets tired of having to explain minutia, which is so basic to him. Maybe he wonders why more people don't understand, or are sharper? Or have common sense?

You also have to consider why he stays and trys to help. BTW the answer is very simple for that...

Knowledge - 10
Tact - 0

It takes some of both

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by Laura-Hergesheimer MotorS

Everyone has an opinion, and Loren's opinions may be considered, blunt, condenscending, even bashing, but I believe he feels he has done more research, diagnosis and testing than many who frequent the board. In his way, I believe Loren is trying to educate us and share his knowledge, but as happens with many engineers, something gets lost in the translation.

There is nothing lost in the translation, and at times he has been just plain obnoxious. Blatantly making fun of someone elses business endeavor to try and *educate* us is just plain tacky and childish.

More 911 Horsepower

There is no way I'd ever send a fried piece of equipment to him for repair with his attitude, and he is not the only automotive electronic technician in the Western Hemisphere. If a business owner I would distance myself from this guy.

[ZAMIRZ]

I'll 2nd what Mark said, he knows his ***** but comes off as a prick. Who knows, in real life he may be a really cool guy or he might be just as much of an a$$ as he comes off in his responses. Either way, I vote to keep him, if you can read past his B.S. "I know it all" attitude he usually has something worthwhile to add.

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by ben parrish
Any one else feel the same way?

No, this behavior is a reality of our world. Welcome!

After reviewing the posts on this off-topic topic, I observed a curious phenomenom. Opinions about this fella degrade as you move further away from his home base (California). So, what's that about?

That's because it's sunny and 65 degrees here and we could give a rats ass about a number of sarcastic comments.

Ahhhh, I can't believe this post got more than 1 reply from someone other than Loren, even worse still is that I contributed. I'm gonna go lay out.

[Decolliber]

I have always found his posts interesting and informative. So what if his manner is not the most diplomatic. If all posters had to exhibit the manners of an English vicar's tea party, many would be gone, and it would a less enjoyable place to visit. As I have said before, if you don't like somone's posts, don't read them.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by Decolliber
If all posters had to exhibit the manners of an English vicar's tea party, many would be gone, and it would a less enjoyable place to visit.

What if it were the dirty vicar's tea party, hmmm?? Nudge-nudge, wink-wink!