Nader

[GrindingGears]

Nader just annouced he's running as an independent canidate. I suggest you all take a good look at his ideas for reform. He is a logical thinker and hopefully can be the catalyst towards the end of a ridculous two party system.

Cheers,
Philp

[motion]

The dems are nervous now... if it wasn't for Nader, Gore would be sitting at 1600 now. Imagine how different things would be if that happened?

[GrindingGears]

Dude, that has got to be one of the stupidest things to say. The libertarians got thousands of votes in Florida, oh wait, so did Buchannan, not to forget to mention the Socialist party. To blame Nader for swinging votes ins't fair, there were many others who "swung votes".

Also, don't you think it's ridiculous that unless you are a republican or democrat you are considered B rated? When was he last time we had someone representing another group besides rep or dem?

Nader swung the votes away from Gore and Bush won...SOOO stupid, people should be able to vote for who they want.

No offense Richard, I'm just sick of hearing that comment. : )

[pwd72s]

Run, Uncle Ralphie, run!

[singpilot]

I figure if I vote for Bush, I'd only be cancelling out ONE Democrat vote.

If I vote for Nader, and he attracts only one or two Democrat votes that would have gone for whichever final ABB (Anybody But Bush) candidate the Democrats decide on, then when the final tallys come out, I have kept two or three Democrat votes from stacking up against Bush.

It's a great plan, and it worked last time too.

Can you imagine Gore handling the world of the last 4 years?

Scary.

Even Nader sounds better than that.

No, I don't want to debate anybody about anything, and I don't want to hear about all the usual litany. Suspect I will anyway.

It's my plan, and I am sticking to it.

[speeder]

I don't really care who anybody "likes" around here, but Nader is the reason why Bush is in the White House, period. (Him and the Supreme Court, actually).

Phillip, how many legitimate votes did the Socialist party or Pat Buchanan get in Fla. in 2000? Nader got 100,000 and Bush (supposedly) beat Gore by 537. All knowledgable people agree that Nader took 100 votes from Gore for every one that he took from Bush, at least, so Nader was an election spoiler, PERIOD. Nader's single accomplishment in 2000 was costing Gore the electoral vote in ~20 states, including Florida, and inserting our present genius in the White House!

"Imagine Gore (as president) the last four years"?? Are you kidding me?? I could imagine Pat Buchanan w/ Strom Thurmond doing a lot less damage than Cheney in control w/ Bush as his front office man. Yassar Arafat in control of the world couldn't f**k things up worse than Bush's retarded son. His will go down in history as the most disasterous presidential administration ever. Who perpetrated the biggest scandal in the history of the U.S. And that is if he is removed in the fall. God help us all if he is re-installed somehow. No Bush-hater, in their wildest nightmare in 2000, could imagine the carnage that these corrupt right-wing extremists could inflict on the world. No one.

Singpilot, do you own a *****load of Halliburton stock or something? I cannot imagine who else would think that the world is a better place for having their board of directors influencing world affairs.

I have a surrogate big brother who fought in Viet Nam as an 18 y.o Marine during the height of the war, and my Dad fought in Korea, uncles in WW2, etc., they all agree that Gore on LSD would have been better than this punk. Someone please illuminate this for me.

Oh yeah, Nader. I liked him better when he was climbing under my car, checking the brakes. WTF makes him qualified to be President?? Or is it just a petulant, "who cares if he's qualified", whine against the 2 dominant parties??

[dd74]

Well, timing is everything as they say in ol' H'wood. Kerry AND Edwards are beating Bush by no less than 10 points in popularity. So is it that Nader steps in to - let's be realistic here - level the playing field more than push Independent values such as his?

Hopefully, if the Dems are as "tight" as the news has said, they'll ignore him. They have to keep focus on getting GW out of the White House. Anything Nader does in lieu of removing Bush is a proven liability.

[ronin]

Originally posted by GrindingGears
Nader just annouced he's running as an independent canidate. I suggest you all take a good look at his ideas for reform. He is a logical thinker and hopefully can be the catalyst towards the end of a ridculous two party system.

Cheers,
Philp

my plot is working! divide and conquer. it's Perot in '92 all over again! only this time the Democrats will be on the short end of the stick, and I shall finally have my revenge!!

MUUAHHAHHAAHAHAAAAAAA!!

[GrindingGears]

Originally posted by speeder
Or is it just a petulant, "who cares if he's qualified", whine against the 2 dominant parties??

Yes, but not a whine, more like a "wake up you guys".

All knowledgable people agree that Nader took 100 votes from Gore for every one that he took from Bush, at least, so Nader was an election spoiler, PERIOD. Nader's single accomplishment in 2000 was costing Gore the electoral vote in ~20 states, including Florida, and inserting our present genius in the White House!

An election spoiler???? What the ***** are you saying?

This is what it sounds like: Vote for the guy that has a chance to beat the other guy (who you don't like), but whatever you do don't vote for your favorite candidate because that will spoil the election?

That makes NO sense to me. Please explain why I should vote for YOUR boy b/c he may lose.

[Nabeel]

I say let him run.....no use in complaining about how he will screw up another candidates chances, etc. This is how the American system works and if a guy wants to run for president, that is his right. I am a little concerned that Nader's involvement may keep Bush in office another 4 years (something I don't want), but I support 100 percent anyone's right to run for public office. I think it is dangerous to limit one's freedom of choice on the basis that it would hurt a broader cause. Isn't that how some of the dumbest decisions have been made in the past? That's how we rushed into the war with Iraq without proper planning, because not enough Dems were willing to put a damper on Bush's mission. A stretched analogy I know, but it still illustrates the dangers of supressing a movement in favor of the 'greater good.'

If you don't like Nader and are mad that he is running, simply do not vote for him. For what its worth, I will likely vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is. I just want to get Bush outta there.

[tabs]

Originally posted by speeder
I don't really care who anybody "likes" around here, but Nader is the reason why Bush is in the White House, period. (Him and the Supreme Court, actually).

Phillip, how many legitimate votes did the Socialist party or Pat Buchanan get in Fla. in 2000? Nader got 100,000 and Bush (supposedly) beat Gore by 537. All knowledgable people agree that Nader took 100 votes from Gore for every one that he took from Bush, at least, so Nader was an election spoiler, PERIOD. Nader's single accomplishment in 2000 was costing Gore the electoral vote in ~20 states, including Florida, and inserting our present genius in the White House!

"Imagine Gore (as president) the last four years"?? Are you kidding me?? I could imagine Pat Buchanan w/ Strom Thurmond doing a lot less damage than Cheney in control w/ Bush as his front office man. Yassar Arafat in control of the world couldn't f**k things up worse than Bush's retarded son. His will go down in history as the most disasterous presidential administration ever. Who perpetrated the biggest scandal in the history of the U.S. And that is if he is removed in the fall. God help us all if he is re-installed somehow. No Bush-hater, in their wildest nightmare in 2000, could imagine the carnage that these corrupt right-wing extremists could inflict on the world. No one.

Singpilot, do you own a *****load of Halliburton stock or something? I cannot imagine who else would think that the world is a better place for having their board of directors influencing world affairs.

I have a surrogate big brother who fought in Viet Nam as an 18 y.o Marine during the height of the war, and my Dad fought in Korea, uncles in WW2, etc., they all agree that Gore on LSD would have been better than this punk. Someone please illuminate this for me.

Oh yeah, Nader. I liked him better when he was climbing under my car, checking the brakes. WTF makes him qualified to be President?? Or is it just a petulant, "who cares if he's qualified", whine against the 2 dominant parties??

Speeder your the reason why I moved to Nevada from CA!

[WOODPIE]

I saw Nader this morning, also. Smart man, well spoken, and can think on his feet. None of his chosen words during the interview sounded anything like what is heard from Kerry, Edwards or the president . He presented no great "plan" that he then had to explain in excruciatingly boring, micro-managed detail. No "lock-box" for entitlement programs. He reduced the homosexual marriage controversey to the most basic of concerns; equal rights....and didn't even try to sidestep that issue.
He sugar-coats nothing, his stance on the issues of environment, economy, healthcare, welfare and the place America should occupy in world affairs are clear as glass.

In other words, he doesn't have a snowball's chance.

I am hoping, however, that the controversy of his entering the race will afford him the opportunity and coverage to bring his perspective of these issues to the forefront.

Ralph has the same anger as Dean, but isn't hampered by the schmooze-talk of the more experienced (bastardized) Kerry or Edwards. I'd really like to see him on the same stage as the president in a debate, that would be killer.

Ed

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I know you're exaggerating and trying to be funny, but this is just stupid.

I could imagine Pat Buchanan w/ Strom Thurmond doing a lot less damage than Cheney in control w/ Bush as his front office man. Yassar Arafat in control of the world couldn't f**k things up worse than Bush's retarded son.

The corporate-owned religious-right Reps scare the hell out of me, and the corporate (or Chinese)-owned Dems who want to raise my taxes so Carmencita can have baby #9 and get free healthcare (while I pay) make me sick.

I'll vote independent, thank you. It's my freaking choice.

[speeder]

Originally posted by tabs
Speeder your the reason why I moved to Nevada from CA!

Thanks, Tabs.

I'm about to become the only guy admitted to Rgruppe w/ a 911SC!!

Yeah, baby!!

[speeder]

And Blue, we might be closer in viewpoint than you think. I am basically aligned w/ the right on several issues, including the (lack of an) immigration policy in our country. I just cannot for the life of me understand how anyone thinks that Bush & Co. have their best interests in mind.

Unless you are one of the lucky corporate types who is benefitting financially from the drummed-up war or the current price of a gallon of gasoline, (in L.A. or Baghdad), , everyone else in the world is suffering under these human canker sores who are making policy.

And Phillip, Nader is not my "favorite candidate" by a long-shot.

[tabs]

Originally posted by speeder
Thanks, Tabs.

I'm about to become the only guy admitted to Rgruppe w/ a 911SC!!

Yeah, baby!!

Go with my Blessings....& tell em I sent U.....now back to my TV...

[lendaddy]

I think GW pissed in Speeder's corn flakes or somethin. That is some deep seated hatred you got there friend. Are you gonna be alright when Bush wins? BTW I'll be in DC for the party either way, see ya there?

[speeder]

He pissed in the world's cornflakes, IMO. And it is not an uninformed opinion, but I don't have the energy to argue anymore. Go ahead and think that he is a good leader, and that he or Cheney would send their own sons to Iraq, or whatever you want.

Will I "be alright when he wins"? I will give up on the American public if that happens, or if people are dumb enough to vote for Nader and give him another term while "losing" the vote, but I'm a survivor. I will fare better than most I suppose, I'm part of the relatively privleged class, but it is no fun watching the world burn. It must take a pretty sick mind to enjoy this *****, just for partisan reasons.

[hardflex]

Nader is smart and he does his homework. If he can get into the debates, he could make a huge impact on this election. but the wimpy Republicans will probably block that, for fear their boy may start crying onstage.

I'm glad to see Nader in. I think it may help Kerry too, as he'll become the "moderate" in the middle.

All of a sudden, this campaign got interesting to me!

[speeder]

And as for "deep seated hatred", I don't know about that. I have an intense dislike for him, but don't wish him ill or anything. I just want him to go back to failing at things that don't matter as much, like all of those businesses in Texas that he got into through family connections.

He has run the country exactly like every other endeavor in his life, he ran it into the ground. I swear that this guy could F.U. a wet dream, as the old saying goes. Granted, these are trying times, but if we ever needed brilliant leadership it was the last 4 years. Instead we got George Jr., who has slid into every situation in his life through name recognition and just dumb luck, (Nader and Florida), and manages to always leave things FUBAR when he moves on to the next failure.

I have always struggled to understand his fans, some are obviously just GOP hacks who would be loyal to any Republican, but are others cheering for the rich frat boys of the world whose Dads' got them everything even though they were never qualified? The guys who always move to the front of the line, (ahead of you, BTW), and get your National Guard spot? As long as they come off like good ole' boys down on the ranch?

Signed,
Confounded