CNN's Crossfire: The Nader Factor

[singpilot]

Just watched Nader hold his own with the worst CNN could throw at him.

Nader: "The democrats are playing checkers when they should be playing chess..."

Nader: "I feel sorry for Kerry... he IS a liberal, but is afraid to say so to the American public. Any man that is afraid to stand up for his convictions will have a tough time convincing the American public to give him the reigns of the country."

Hmmmm. Makes ya kinda wish someone so forthright could be president some day. The other two choices are not any choice at all.

He stands for some interesting concepts on his website.

www.votenader.org

Not necessarily my cup of tea, and I'm not defending him here, but I'm not prejudging him as an also-ran in advance as everyone seems to be.

Someone needs to show him how to comb the hair on the back of his head.

[nut11]

I, too, wish there was more plain speaking on the part of Kerry or for that matter, politicians in general. He has nothing to lose by taking a risk and projecting who he is. Gosh, what a refreshing thought. While it is debatable that our citizenry has dumbed down in the last quarter century, (some days I believe it's true), the politicians consistenty treat us as if it were. With Bush, you know the devil you are dealing with, right or wrong, but Kerry, I don't know. Too connected to the Kennedys, maybe.

[island911]

Nader is in this to influence, and pull the dem's a bit to the left.

That's a lot of work he's doing, and for what? . . . . that's dedication!

Nader has pissed-off the power-hungry middle-of-the road Dem's.

Perot has pissed-off the power-hungry middle-of-the road Rep's.

I gotta say, I like these guys.

[fintstone]

You guys are too hard on Kerry. He knows if America was not so clueless as to his voting record...he could not win an election for dogcatcher.

[Moneyguy1]

Ands I assume you guys KNOW why Kerry voted certain ways on some issues? Could it be there was some nice fat pork attached to some of those bills and this might have influenced his vote?

Without a thorough examination of the record, I am not about to trash either side. You may be quite knowledgable, but I detect a bit of bias creeping in............

"Kerry bad....Bush good......."

Hmmm..If only the world were that simple.......

[fintstone]

Ands I assume you guys KNOW why Kerry voted certain ways on some issues? Could it be there was some nice fat pork attached to some of those bills and this might have influenced his vote?

Yes, of course we do. From my review...it appears that Kerry never found a tax increase he didn't like or a military program he did. His voting record is even farther left than Ted Kenedy. guess if you are far left...it is a good voting record...otherwise not.

[350HP930]

From my review it appears that most of the facts regurgitated on this board by fintstone are fresh from rush limbaugh's brodcasts.

[fintstone]

From my review it appears that most of the facts regurgitated on this board by fintstone are fresh from rush limbaugh's brodcasts.

Strangely enough, I don't listen to Limbaugh....but it appears you do! LOL! He is too far left for me. Its hell coming to an argument armed with BS and someone show up with a few fact, isn't it. Much easier to call names, huh?

[WOODPIE]

350HP930

I agree. Or, what's that smell? Could it be troll?

Ed

[fintstone]

You too, Woodpie?

[dd74]

I like Nader. But I've also always liked the Corvair. Hmmm...yet another two-party system.

I smell burning plastic...

[CamB]

Yes, of course we do. From my review...it appears that Kerry never found a tax increase he didn't like or a military program he did. His voting record is even farther left than Ted Kenedy. guess if you are far left...it is a good voting record...otherwise not.

While this may or may not be a "fact", even if it is, so what? Compared to the majority of developed countries in the world, you guys have pretty moderate taxes. If you didn't spend so much on military your government would have more money too (perhaps actually justifying a tax decrease).

You know, I think he might be onto something.

[fintstone]

If we did not spend the amount we do on the military, the cold war would still be ongoing..assuming that the Soviet Union had not already absorbed the rest of europe, Iraq would have taken over Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, North Korea would have overrun South Korea and probably Japan, China would have absorbed Taiwan, and Afganistan would still be controlled by terrorists. Not sure if Pakistan or India would win their war, but sure nukes would be used. Good idea!

[dd74]

Fintstone is correct - economics ended the Cold War.

As far as a tax decrease, it'll never happen.

[Moneyguy1]

1. Fintstone: Please back up your allegations with facts or just be considered another idealogue. Confucus say "Is easier to burst balloon than to repair same". BTW...Love your home town......beautiful state.

Must remember....

Kerry bad.....Bush good......

Kerry bad......Bush good......

Have I got it right?

2. Aah..The Corvair...I was (back east and 15 years ago) the Corvair guru for the local club. Had a '68 coupe tricked out with a '65 turbo engine (balanced, 185 rwhp; 0 - 60 runs 8.6 sec; not bad for its day), black Corsa interior, Guards Red (imagine that!!). Sold it and another restored '62 in 1991, and 10 years later they were still running. Couldn't kill the engines on those puppies, but the '60 thru '64 models could kill you if you didn't know how to handle them. Them swing axles were a lousy idea........

[fintstone]

1. Fintstone: Please back up your allegations with facts or just be considered another idealogue.

Please explain...I think I have provided facts for anything but the most basic, obvious positions.

[Moneyguy1]

No, you didn't. Simply saying that a specific candidate "never saw a tax he didn't like" does not constitute a factual response.

Like I said, there may be reasons a politician may change his or her mind on a specific vote. Ever hear of "pork"? Adding something to what might have been a good idea may make the entire package unacceptable.

Not trying to get your goat, just like to see data on Kerry's votes. I don't have that data either, so I am not in a position to judge the "goodness" or "badness" of certain activities. If you have it, could you please post it or post a site where I can see it ?What you say may have merit, but at this point I cannot say.

[fintstone]

Here is a good unbiased source of his voting record...decide for yourself..
http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103

[fintstone]

I believe you will find that he voted against procurement of:
The B-1 bomber.
The B-2 bomber.
The F-15 Eagle tactical fighter
The F-14D Tomcat fighter
The AH-64 Apache Helicopter
The AV-8B Harrier "jump" jet
The Patriot Missile
The Aegis air-defense system
The Trident missile

and to reduce the funding for procurement of :
The M1 Abrams tank
The Bradley Fighting Vehicle
The Tomahawk cruise missile
The F-16 Falcon fighter/attack jet

[350HP930]

All I see in that list is a bunch of redundant and over priced equipment that has done little to nothing to protect our country from the true threats it faces.

I know your opinion is bound to be the opposite. I'm sure you will postulate that russia would be operating at full steam if not for those weapons programs and that every third world nation in the world would be trying to invade us right now if we had dared to stick with all the other weapon systems that worked just fine.

Do you happen to know the history of the B1 bomber and how the fleet has spent most of its life being grounded and retrofitted for critical repairs and design defects.

I guess kerry has been doing his homework a bit better than armchair warriors such as yourself.