MLB not for me.

[H.G.P.]

No MLB for me, not a single game. ... "home run thing", an asterik after every name until the fence is moved to 600.

[GrindingGears]

go giants!!!!!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Bar-roids Bonds - *yawn*.

I love baseball, but this is probably the most bogus "fishing for attention" event in recent memory. Baseball clearly has a guy on their hands with steroids oozing out of every pore and then tries to milk his "great accomplishment" for every ounce of publicity they can. Despicable.

Bonds IS a talented hitter, but he's forever sullied his own reputation. I for one will ALWAYS think of his accomplishment is illegitimate.

[CJFusco]

i wear my heart on my sleeve... or on my avatar, at least

I think you either grow up being a baseball fan, or you don't. Trying to explain the greatness of the game to a non-fan is damn near impossible

[lendaddy]

I think if people knew how much steroid use there was in other sports they might cut these guys a little slack. For instance it has received very little press that for years Winstrol(a very potent steroid) was legal for NBA players throughout the 80's-90's. The stuff Big Mac was on was legal while he was using it. I agree an asterisk is needed, but you cannot blame a guy for pushing the envelope without breaking the rules.

[Doug Zielke]

I will once again cheer for the Mariners (1-5...ouch!)

I'm also thinking about a SCWDP Day at the 'Safe'.
What say Rainforesters?

[DonDavis]

Yo! CJ, what's the skinny on Schilling and the Bean-town media? Has he pissed everyone off yet? What's your opinion on his presence?

Don't want to hijack the MLB hater thread so if you want, PM me back.

[GrindingGears]

"he's forever sullied his own reputation"

Thank you, you just confirmed that he is one of the greatest ever.

The list of all time "great" atheltes that have controversy attached with their career is loooong.

Let me help you get started...

M.j #23, freggin addicted to gambling, cheated on his wife?
Ruth, alcholic, nuf said.
Mantle, nuf said.
Sosa, cork.
Mcguire, cretine.
Farve, it hurts, give me more pills.
I can keep going....my point is: there's always something negative attached with greatness. "He/she is great BUT..."

As you know, for Barry it's his lazy boy in the corner of the locker room and allegations that he doped up.

With that being said he still has one of the greatest swings in the game....EVER. Remember this, steroids dont make your swing great...they make your arms big and your nuts small.

His swing is great b/c of God given natural talent (quick hands), studying/experience (understanding what pitch comes next), and coaching (his dad, Bobby Bonds as a hitting coach and Willie Mays as a mentor). He's not some shmoe who got big and came out of no where. He has been groomed to be the best player ever his whole life.

People in the bay area will tell you, **** I'll tell you, I lived five minutes from his high school (Serra) and played ball on the same fields he did. He was crushing the ball in h.s. as a skinny kid, out of the park, across the street and hitting the 3rd floor of a building across from the field. What field? San Mateo Park, go check it out.

We've been lucky to see him play during our life time, don't take that for granted. I'm done.

[H.G.P.]

Yea, yea, sure sure..lets go ahead "anything goes? Why not just let um start using aluminum bats, doctor up the baseball (some more?), what's next, maybe even some bionics in the future? I've reached the limit when a factor is no longer either exposed (Sammy) and corrected/remedied, or becomes so prevasive that "it" skewers the history of the game.

[nostatic]

the game pretty much lost me at the last strike (or was it the strike before that...I forget). I dearly love baseball, but hate MLB. I'd rather go watch class A ball where the players actually sorta give a damn.

Oh, and little league sucks now too. I'm so sick of pathetic parents trying to live through their kids, as if the child's sucess will somehow make their own past better. But I digress...

[Neilk]

Hey Philip,

I watched my little brother play at the field in the late '80s early '90s. Heard the same story too. Must have been quite a shot.

[Moses]

Originally posted by GrindingGears
Remember this, steroids dont make your swing great...they make your arms big and your nuts small.

I hope you're not seriously comparing alcoholism, gambling and debauchery to steroid use. Steroids are the ultimate performance enhancer. The threaten the integrity of the game itself.

"Steroids don't make a great swing." What a joke. Steroids turn routine fly outs into home runs. They don't take them because they want smaller nuts.

[GrindingGears]

RE: the alcholism et cetera.

There are often controverses/stimgas associated with great athletes just for the reason that they are great. In our culture we "get off" when our heros have failures or falter in their life. I'm an accountant not a psych, but I would venture to guess that it's b/c it makes them seem more "real".

In Barry's case, there hasn't even been any proof that he used roids, he has also denied it. The hype behind this 'roid issue is centered around tarnishing another individual's accomplishments. If his piss came up postive? then yes I would agree, flame away, asterix, suspension, how dare he. But until then, all the comments that discredit him are attempts to tarnish his career and there by placing him in that list I started above. I'm not asking you to buy into my point, but does that make more sense?


Onto the swing thing....

"Steroids turn routine fly outs into home runs."

Have you ever hit a home run? All the home runs I've hit were because I swung at the right angle, right time, and hit the ball with the right part of the bat. NOT necessarily b/c I swung harder. It's about the swing, and not all about the force behind the swing. Efficiency and timing, not brute force.


Agree with me on this, Barry is most likely clean (roid free) at the moment, right? With all the hype and a chance he could be tested, he is probably being extra careful not to get pinned for anything.

Let's allow Barry to show us this season if roids helped him out. I'll go as far to say he'll hit .400 this year (barring any terrible injuries) and match his slugging and BB from last year. Let's watch and see, about 150 games left to find out.

Cheers,
Philip

P.S. If you want to ***** about something, ***** about the body armour players are wearing today. IMO thats made a huge difference in today's batting numbers. Get rid of that stuff and get them off the plate, this is hardball!

[Moses]

Originally posted by GrindingGears

Have you ever hit a home run? All the home runs I've hit were because I swung at the right angle, right time, and hit the ball with the right part of the bat. NOT necessarily b/c I swung harder. It's about the swing, and not all about the force behind the swing. Efficiency and timing, not brute force.

That opinion is commonly echoed by sportswriters. Sadly, it's not entirely true. Steroids increase both strength and bat speed. (Proven) . Has to do with swing initiation by rapid conversion of large muscle groups.

Remember the ball that you just barely missed the sweet spot. It used to fly harmlessly to the center fielder. Now it's a round tripper. Again, they do not take steroids because they want smaller nuts. They take them because they work. Fact is, the average fan probably vastly underestimates how well they work and their enormous contribution to the long-ball tally.

About Barry. "Proof" is only decided in a court of law and this case is unlikely to get there. What we do know is there are countless reciepts for steroids as well steroid delivery records designated "B. Bonds" You do the math.

Also, the MLBPA has refused uniform testing and any testing that reveals individual users identity. We only know that more that 8% of players were positive at the time of the first "screening check". If the MLBPA submits to testing, there will be a minimum two year warning. There is no incentive to stop using steroids untill baseball announces a testing schedule. Is Barry still using? There is far too much at stake to stop using now.

[widebody911]

I guess you have to grow up with baseball a certain way to appreciate it. I played Little League as a kid, and hated it. Apart from chess or golf, I don't know if there's a more boring sport to watch. The same goes for football. 10 seconds of action, 5 minutes of watching a bunch of guys standing around scrathing their nuts.

[RickC]

Leave out the steroids and you still have to worry about the shrinking fields - moving in the fences in the last few years has made the new "records" that much easier to achieve.

[CJFusco]

Steroids and shrinking fields don't explain why Bonds, Helton, et al cannot approach the career numbers of Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, or Ted Williams.

Career Batting Average:
1. Ty Cobb+ .3664 L
2. Rogers Hornsby+ .3585 R
3. Joe Jackson .3558 L
4. Lefty O'Doul .3493 L
5. Ed Delahanty+ .3459 R
6. Tris Speaker+ .3447 L
7. Ted Williams+ .3444 L
8. Billy Hamilton+ .3443 L
9. Dan Brouthers+ .3421 L
Babe Ruth+ .3421 L

Career On-Base Percentage
1. Ted Williams+ .4817 L
2. Babe Ruth+ .4739 L
3. John McGraw+ .4657 L
4. Billy Hamilton+ .4552 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ .4474 L
6. Bill Joyce .4349 L
7. Rogers Hornsby+ .4337 R
8. Barry Bonds (38) .4332 L
9. Ty Cobb+ .4330 L
10. Frank Thomas (35) .4284 R

Career Slugging Percentage:
1. Babe Ruth+ .6897 L
2. Ted Williams+ .6338 L
3. Lou Gehrig+ .6324 L
4. Todd Helton (29) .6159 L
5. Jimmie Foxx+ .6093 R
6. Hank Greenberg+ .6050 R
7. Barry Bonds (38) .6021 L
8. Manny Ramirez (31) .5977 R
9. Mark McGwire .5882 R
10. Vladimir Guerrero (27) .5876 R

It also doesn't explain how pitching today seems to be better than it ever has... i guess pitching has evolved into something very precise over the past few decades.

Career Win-Loss Percentage:
1. Al Spalding+ .7956 R
2. Spud Chandler .7171 R
3. Pedro Martinez (31) .7124 R
4. Tim Hudson (27) .7080 R
5. Whitey Ford+ .6901 L
Dave Foutz .6901 R
7. Bob Caruthers .6877 R
8. Don Gullett .6855 L
9. Lefty Grove+ .6803 L
10. Babe Ruth+ .6714 L
11. Joe Wood .6705 R
12. Jay Hughes .6694 R
13. Randy Johnson (39) .6686 L
14. Bill Hoffer .6667 R
Vic Raschi .6667 R
16. Larry Corcoran .6654 R
17. Christy Mathewson+ .6649 R
18. Sam Leever .6599 R
19. Roger Clemens (40) .6596 R
20. Sal Maglie .6575 R

Hits allowed Per 9 Innings
1. Nolan Ryan+ 6.555 R
2. Pedro Martinez (31) 6.723 R
3. Sandy Koufax+ 6.792 L
4. Sid Fernandez 6.851 L
5. J.R. Richard 6.876 R
6. Andy Messersmith 6.937 R
7. Hoyt Wilhelm+ 7.014 R
8. Randy Johnson (39) 7.019 L
9. Sam McDowell 7.034 L
10. Ed Walsh+ 7.123 R

Here we see the dominance of modern pitching -
Ks per 9 innings pitched
1. Randy Johnson (39) 11.158 L
2. Pedro Martinez (31) 10.502 R
3. Nolan Ryan+ 9.548 R
4. Sandy Koufax+ 9.278 L
5. Hideo Nomo (34) 9.074 R
6. Sam McDowell 8.858 L
7. Curt Schilling (36) 8.847 R
8. Dan Plesac (41) 8.740 L
9. Lee Smith 8.732 R
10. Roger Clemens (40) 8.622 R
11. Eric Plunk 8.453 R
12. Sid Fernandez 8.404 L
13. J.R. Richard 8.367 R
14. David Cone (40) 8.284 R
15. Jesse Orosco (46) 8.194 L
16. Chan Ho Park (30) 8.179 R
17. Tom Gordon (35) 8.153 R
18. Bob Veale 7.958 L
19. John Smoltz (36) 7.951 R
20. Mark Davis 7.915 L