the appearance of safety

[island911]

Are airports (and overflown cities) safer now that we are required to show up in a robe & slippers?

[dhoward]

I think your subject line says it all....

[island911]

hasty with the subject line. . .oops

So, anyway, then; just what is a reasonable balance? (between safety & intrusion)

I, for one, can NOT imagine any terrorist EVER pulling off that again. Infact the terrorist were defeted on 9/11, by some rather confussed passengers. . . .well, the passengers who took action, obviously had some clarity. Point being, with the clarity we all have post 9/11, it seems this airport security is a way over the top.

[Aurel]

It all depends on the slippers: bunny slippers are safe, doggy slippers are OK, but babouches (I do not know the english translation, but I included a picture) are not safe .



Aurel

[island911]

btw I started this thread in response to this excellent post.

Originally posted by nostatic
well, this is the rub, isn't it? We want our cake (get rid of the terrorists) and to eat it too (our civil liberties). To a certain extent they are mutually exclusive...you want safety (or the appearance thereof), you give up personal freedoms.

Interesting side note: A friend who came to dinner on Saturday got a panicked call from his wife who was in NY. They are both Americans, she travels a lot as a senior VP for an ad company, he does real estate and is an actor. Both white (hell, he's from Texas). His wife just found out she couldn't get on a plane to leave NY since they both now are on the "no-fly list". Something about an incident when they were flying from DFW to LAX. But there wasn't an incident...no report from AA...no nothing. Just materializing on the no-fly list.

[Superman]

Glenn, you may be aware that I work at the airport. Here are some interesting observations. When TSA decided to hire a army of local people to become the airport's security staff, the local applicant pool consisted of individuals who were, at the time, unemployed. Even with their TSA jackets off, they bear a striking resemblance to the people who are still unemployed. It appears as though they may have been in a hurry.

While background checks take perhaps a week or two for security badges here, it apparently took about three months for the security checks of the new security staff. When the results came back, about 30% of those hired had to be dismissed.

Before the second tower fell, I was imagining that there should be some Israeli airport security experts already on their way to America. I guess not.

Glenn, security is no different from any other issue. In our country it's a glamour contest. I like the name you chose for this thread. We prefer smoke, mirrors and holograms over substance. We want politics to look like the commercials on TV.

[Superman]

I don't agree, by the way. I have no confidence, whatsoever, that the 9/11 incident would even be more difficult today. There is no question in my mind that it is possible. Heck, we've had kids smuggling knives and guns onto airplanes just to prove they can, and then announcing their successes in an effort to draw attention to our current airport "security" systems. It's a cross between Mickey Mouse and Three Stooges.

Then there's the idea I've heard where we hand this over to private enterprize. Now there's a stroke of genius. Because people trust businesses today more than they trust their government. I'll probably get flamed for suggesting that our government is more trustworthy than "private business," but that's most definitely, absolutely my position. I've been an insider in both, and by FAR the most corruption in government is in the legislative arm, and not in the administrative arm. That's because "business" has a grip on the politicians, but not as good a grip on administrative agencies.

[Isabo]

What the public sees in the way of security precautions is lip service meant to reassure. I hope there is something better in the background as well. Last week flying to London the security lady insisted on x-raying my buffalo leather sandals. Fine, except she was obviously more interested in identifying the label than anything that might have been concealed in the very thin soles, others with heavy boots went straight through. They go crazy over nailclippers "this is a weapon", but one litre glass bottles of spirits are ok as passengers would complain if they were confiscated and the crews would complain if they had to have them in custody for the flight.

[Shuie]

I just flew to my Mothers house for Easter. The flight went through a major hub and two smaller Intl airports. I checked in by phone in the lobby at one of them, my ID was not checked at another, and I was never asked if I had let any of the security questions in any of the three.

To me, the security I saw looked more lax than it was even a year ago. At least on the surface it did. I don’t have a clue what’s going on behind the scenes. I’m not a fan of government intrusion into my privacy anymore than the next guy, but truly do hope that there is actually more of a security plan in place than I saw for the holiday.

Hopefully our attention span is not that short. I couldn’t believe the number of people I heard get lippy when they were asked to return to their seats because the seatbelt signs had not been turned off yet. Two years ago, no one would have done **** like that.

[singpilot]

Mikey likes it.

The title of this thread.

[nostatic]

yeah, but Michael you're packin' heat in the cockpit, aren't you?

[singpilot]

Nope, did the training, got the permit, then moved across to the private side. Know all of my passengers now.

Don't have to add the *******s to the no-fly list anymore.

People haven't figured it out yet. You give someone some cargada on an airplane? You no fly.

Your friends are now charter cutomers for the first flight. After that, the charter company will get the same results. Then they will be buying their own, or they will be "Leaving the driving to us! Go Greyhound!"

Moral? Sit down, Buckle up, Sit back, Shut up.

Why would they fuch with another airplane/airport security when they could drive a little nuke to a Nascar event and kill 200,000 mouth-breathers in one stroke? The airplane crashes were great attention getters, but I think they'll go for body count on the next round. Prolly hit about a month before the prez election....Paybacks are hell.

[jyl]

This is a small thing, I supose, but as long as we are talking about airport security I'm going to gripe about no longer being able to fly with my Swiss Army knife. For decades, the thing was always with me. It even had to be sent back to Switzerland for an overhaul. Now I can't carry it, due to the threat that I could whittle my way through an armored cockpit door with the corkscrew, or threaten a flight attendant with the 2" blade. Seems like an overreaction. What is McGyver supposed to do?

(Oh, I agree a 2" blade could kill someone - a 1" blade could too, and maybe even the nail clippers that also can't be carried. But so could bare hands, or a fork, etc. Now that we have armored cockpit doors and pilots under instruction not to open them regardless of hostage-taking, seems like a terrorist with a 2" blade might kill one person before he's beaten to death by fifty others.)

[Aurel]

When you come to think about it, there are many things that could kill someone: long shoe laces, long and sharp nails, sharpened eyeglasses frames...that makes the ban on nailclippers truly ridiculous.

Aurel

[Eric Coffey]

It would probably cost MUCH more, but I've always thought they should have the security screenings at each individual gate, right before you get on the plane. No chance for anyone to stash/grab anything past the checkpoint locations, and no long lines at multi-gate stations.
And yes, some of the rules/guidelines are ridiculous, especially when they are inconsistently enforced. Bomb sniffing dogs and explosive material detectors for baggage, combined with reinforced cockpit doors and gun ports should do the trick!

Also, I think Mark is on the right track. If another attack comes, it will probably be delivered by anything BUT an airplane. At which point we will divert attention to beefing up security measures for whatever caused/facilitated it. We just don't want to get caught in a never-ending game of "catch up".

[singpilot]

Originally posted by Eric Coffey
If another attack comes, it will probably be delivered by anything BUT an airplane. At which point we will divert attention to beefing up security measures for whatever caused/facilitated it. We just don't want to get caught in a never-ending game of "catch up".

Eric!

We ARE in a never ending game of "catch-up"!

The terrorists are counting on it. We'd have to suspend most of our constitution to be anything else. The left is already screaming about the Patriot Act. We'll never take the steps (spend the money) or suffer the assault from the immigrant rights groups to secure our borders.

So...... We play "Catch up".

Lets see.... Madrid was 2 weeks prior. That makes middle of October a real good time to be away from the States.

And November 5th a real good time to be in a voting booth.

[John Brandt]

Originally posted by jyl
This is a small thing, I supose, but as long as we are talking about airport security I'm going to gripe about no longer being able to fly with my Swiss Army knife. For decades, the thing was always with me. It even had to be sent back to Switzerland for an overhaul. Now I can't carry it, due to the threat that I could whittle my way through an armored cockpit door with the corkscrew, or threaten a flight attendant with the 2" blade. Seems like an overreaction. What is McGyver supposed to do?

(Oh, I agree a 2" blade could kill someone - a 1" blade could too, and maybe even the nail clippers that also can't be carried. But so could bare hands, or a fork, etc. Now that we have armored cockpit doors and pilots under instruction not to open them regardless of hostage-taking, seems like a terrorist with a 2" blade might kill one person before he's beaten to death by fifty others.)

That really bothers me too. Why not just let people have this stuff. Nobody is ever going to be able to take control of an airplane like that again. Everybody knows better than to cooperate

[island911]

Originally posted by John Brandt
That really bothers me too. Why not just let people have this stuff. Nobody is ever going to be able to take control of an airplane like that again. Everybody knows better than to cooperate

Yep; there is just no freak'n way a passenger plane is going to be given up like that, ever again. In fact we would be in a better spot if passengers could carry blades again.

My concern, (wrt hyjacked planes) is the security of the cargo planes. They don't have a mob to take out the bad guys. (ala flt 93) We have already had people fed-ex themselves. . .. hmmm. . .those cargo holds are pretty secure . . .right?

[singpilot]

At one of our management meetings not too long after 9/11, I made the suggestion that we hand out 5" knives to all of our passengers. We have the first class passengers' names engraved on them, and they get to keep theirs.

Then we advertise as "The All-Armed Airline".

Then I stated that I don't care where the hijackers go, as long as it's somewhere else.

Needless to say, a few moments of silence, then after all the shocked looks faded, everyone started laughing, nervously, but laughing nonetheless.

I am always popular at these meetings.