Dog attack last night. What to do..?

[RickM]

This is long, but hey it's Friday morning

Well, I get home from work, have a nice dinner and decide to go with my wife and daughter for a walk with Miles our Golden Retriever. Strolling down the street, which is a quiet dead end, all is peaceful.

Enter Baron....a small German Shepard owned by the ex-pilot neighbor at the end of the street. The dog is flying across his lawn and onto the street, towards us, like a bullet. It was obvious that this dog was not joining us to play.

We honestly had just enough time to say "Uh Oh", that’s how fast it happened. I don't think Miles saw the dog coming. I tried in vain to intercept but with a slight maneuver the dog blew by me. Next thing the dog is viciously going for my dog's shoulder, chest and leg. My dog is collapsing backwards onto himself as my wife is behind him and he's on a short leash. Only thing I could do to help my "at-a-disadvantage" pup is grab the other dog by the back of the neck with one hand, skin above the hip with the other hand and do a half revolution hammer throw......the dog landed on all fours about 15 feet away.

The owner was genuinely upset over the incident and other than being shaken up my dog was fine....thanks to all that fur. My daughter suffered the most as it truly upset her and the sight of the attack flipped her out...she was hysterical while it took place.

Even though the owner was remorseful I demanded he tie his uncontrollable dog up at all times.....BECAUSE....this is the second time in a year that it happened (first time right in front of my home). Luckily I was alone.

What would you do? Short of me picking my 95# dog up and out of reach what do I do? Too quick for mace or anything of that nature.....

As callous as this sounds I may (really) hurt the dog if this happens again.

[expat]

I have had two dogs attach ME in my life.

One took exception to me patting him while he was eating (I was 7 years old at the time). He turned and bit me in the mouth requiring 17 stitches. The owner (friend) was going to put him down but I cried and said no, feeling it must have been my fault which it was.

Second time, only a few years ago, I was walking thru the campus where I lived on my way to work, when a wild dog started stalking me from behind. I tried to keep calm. He probably smelt breakfast on me . Anyhows, shortly there were three dogs following me and I starting feeling really concerned. When they were no more than 3 metres away from I truned and tried to scare them. Well that didnt work! Two charged me. I decided it was me or them so I prepared for a good kick in the mouth (sort of getting my own back). As the first one got real close i gave it what for, and kicked it right in the jaw. It backed off with a howl and the others backed off too. I was sweating and shaking for the rest of the day.

So back to your experience. Since my experience recently I have thought, would a spray like mace get you in trouble with an owner/the law if you used this to protect yourself while out walking? Is it even legal to carry the stuff these days?

I dont want to hurt any dog, but if it comes down to me or my family vs an angry dog.....

[Eric 951]

Rick,

Give animal control heads up about this incident. And let the owner know that if he continues to leave his dog untied or restrained and it happens again, you will call animal control again--they can seize the dog and charge the owner. Most places have laws regarding unrestrained animals--especially if this is the second incident(that you know about--who knows who else has been attacked).

If the owner is genuinely concerned, he will chain it. If you see it running loose, practice your punting technique--you may need it next time it attacks your dog.

[RickM]

Good point about attacking others. I wouldn't be surprised if others have had the same experience.

Mace/pepper spray is legal here but it would have been ineffective as aiming a stream at a running dog accurately is impposible. Punting, that's it.

Now I know how the postman feels....sheesh.

[rcm]

Rick,
I would have a very serious talk with the owner. What would have happened if it was just your wife and child? No superdad to handle things. He needs to know how important it is to control his dog. By the way I own a shepard.
Rick

[304065]

All right, time for a little dog bite action!

In general, a pet owner is liable for damage his dog causes.

The old maxim, "Every dog gets one free bite" is not true. It used to be considered that the owner wasn't liable if he was unaware that the dog was prone to biting. Not so anymore: some states impose liability if the animal has "known hazardous propensities," e.g. it is a fighting dog that has been beaten every day of its life and hates humans.

Now, you say this is the SECOND time that the dog has menaced you. You say you were alone the first time, did the dog attack you, or your dog?

Anyway, if you believe you have determinable DAMAGES there are attorneys specializing in dog bite cases in your area that can counsel you on what legal recourse you may have.

But I wouldn't recommend that, nor would I recommend turning fido into 100 pounds of bone chips and hamburger with a 158-grain .357 slug painted Aztec gold on the tip, which can subject YOU to potential civil penalties and is messy besides.

No, what you need to do is call up the owner and tell him, politely, that you want to come over and have a discussion with him about his dog. If he agrees, I would very politely tell him that if his dog is out in public, and not on a leash, there's a risk that the dog is going to hurt somebody, which would be tragic, and also potentially subject the owner to civil damages, which could be pretty big, and may not be covered by insurance.

Put it to him like this: the cost of an "invisible fence" system or a radio shock collar is, say, $500. Suppose it were not your dog but your daughter, (G_d forbid) that were bitten by his dog, and suppose further that you decided to sue him and the jury returned a verdict of $10,000. Now ask him: faced with having to take out a $10,000 mortgage on his house to pay you a cash settlement, would he rather pay $500 to you to forget the whole thing? If the answer is YES, then why not just spend the money now and avoid the tragedy of somebody getting hurt and the resultant legal process?

If you are calm, and he is rational, you might get somewhere. If not, you now are aware of TWO incidents in which the dog attacked, and you may someday have to act in self defense.

Good luck to you, this kind of thing can be frustrating but calm usually carries the day.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

If you'd have picked up your dog, you'd have likely been attacked, with your hands full, and off balance. You probably did the right thing, although personally I'd have made sure I broke the damn thing's neck during my reaction, no more problem that way.

I don't care how "nice of a guy" your neighbor is - his feelings for his out-of-control dog are less important than the lives of your family or your pet when you're playing by the rules and he clearly isn't.

[motion]

As demonstrated around here previously, I'm not much of a fan of guns, but if I had your experience, I'd be ready the next time that thing came at my dog.

[Tishabet]

Believe it or not, I used to be a fairly serious dog sledding enthusiast, and I've been in my share of dog fights. I agree with the advice given above in terms of ways to prevent another incident. In terms of what to do when the dog is actually attacking you, here are some recommendations:
First, your "hammer throw" is similar to what dog drivers do. No animal (humans included) like the loss of power/control that comes with being lifted off their feet. I usually heft the dog over my shoulder and drop him on his back. Dogs REALLY don't like being on their back when they are in a fighting mood, it's their most vulnerable position. One of the first tests you do with puppies to determine their disposition is to flip them on their backs with their belly exposed and see how long you can keep them like that. An aggressive dog will HATE this vulnerability.
Second, if the dog has his jaws locked onto anything (you or your dog) there are a few good moves you can pull off to make him let go/retreat. First is the aforementioned lifting him off his feet. Other options: Go for the eyes. Enough said.
Another option: Dogs are sensitive under their chin. A good punch there will really stun a dog.
And last but not least, my preferred method: Choke them. It will take a few seconds, but if you can get your hands around a dogs throat and choke them, they'll let go because of laryngeospasm, the same reflex that often causes drowning victims to not aspirate water. Choking is my "go to" solution if one dog has his jaws locked onto another and won't let go.
FWIW, I've never kept a fighter and most of the other dog drivers I know have the same rule. If the dog starts fights, the dog has to go. No exceptions.

[RickM]

Excellent advice here....really.

John,

First time I was alone with my dog. It probably looked comical but when this dog went after mine I picked my dog up, by the short leash, and tried to suspend him above the attacking dog and beat him away with my foot and free arm. I tried to keep myself between the two. in spite of my effort a couple of pucture wounds were found later.

Rick, I love shepards ...well except for this frustrated one

A talk is in order as this animal is a menace. The invisible fence is a great idea but I've heard out of control dogs ignore the collar when they're fired up.

A 357 wouldn't be my solution but something more of pick-up and slam to the ground or tree or....? But I really don't want to resort to that.

[cstreit]

I think the invisible fence is a good idea. If you're feeling generous and want to help him feel generous, offer to help him install it.

I'd hate to hurt ANY dog but this one clearly has issues, whether from abuse of bad breeding, who knows. Either way it's a risk to you and your family.

What if your daughter was walking your dog when it happened and accidentally got in the middle you know? As much as I'd hate to make the guy get rid of it, that's close enough to personal danger to your child to warrant a strong action.

I do agree that talking with the owner first is a good idea before involving the authorities. Give him a chance to make it right, and to your satisfaction. If he doesn't, that is the time to take it up a notch. You may lose a neighbor, but gain some peace of mind.

[GrindingGears]

Some really great advice so far. I'd make a report with animal control immediately. It's their job to talk with the owner, not yours.

EDIT: No way, RE: talking with the owner first to keep things cush... faack the owner! What that dog did is serious, not something you just forget about and "hope to work out". It is your responsiblity to make your experienes with this dog known to the proper authorities.

How many times have people been mauled by dogs and then after the fact the neighborhood says, "Oh ya that dog was nasty, we should have reported it". If someone would have done something about it as soon as the problem was indentified, a terrrible situation could have been averted.

Get serious dude, you were assulted.

[SRISER]

Concealed carry...fix that little problem.

[vash]

i used to have a malamute that had a troubled life. he would attack anything near our yard. he jacked up a mini collie, and that was the last straw. the owner, my elementary school librarian, called animal control. a officer came over immediately and gave us an order to only keep our dog inside. one more incident and we would have had a hefty fine, and the dog would have been put down. Mrs. eason was WAY within her rights, and i would have done the same thing, AS SHOULD YOU! call animal control to put it in record.

now if it ever happens to me, on the recieving in, i will cut the dogs throat with my ubiqitious benchmade knife. right then and there. i choose dogs for their sweet disposition now. no mean dogs are messing with them.

[ubiquity0]

Originally posted by GrindingGears


EDIT: No way, RE: talking with the owner first to keep things cush... faack the owner! What that dog did is serious, not something you just forget about and "hope to work out". It is your responsiblity to make your experienes with this dog known to the proper authorities.

How many times have people been mauled by dogs and then after the fact the neighborhood says, "Oh ya that dog was nasty, we should have reported it". If someone would have done something about it as soon as the problem was indentified, a terrrible situation could have been averted.

Get serious dude, you were assulted.

I agree. Given that this is the second time this has happened you should get Animal Control involved. This is serious- nothing trivial about it.

I'm a dog lover, but there is nothing callous about defending your family against an attacking dog.

[304065]

Gentlemen, a cautionary note: without for a moment diminishing either your right to keep and bear arms or of their use in reasonable self defense, let me suggest that it would be a very bad thing to be charged with a weapons violation, cruelty to animals or anything else as a result of an armed encounter with an animal. The danger is very real that in attempting to bust a cap in fido, you might injure a bystander.

Also, consider how it would look to a civil jury if you just happened to be packing a SOG SEAL combat knife in your bathrobe on the way to get the morning paper.

I guess I'm saying that if it gets to the point where you are consciously arming yourself to protect against the threat of the neighborhood dog, then you probably have a case for the animal control folks to have the dog humanely destroyed.

[MFAFF]

Dogs....

I was attakced when I was a kid, several stitches were the result...then to add insult to injury the owners called Animal Control to complain I was harassing the dog....what by playing football in the public park while he had escaped his owners' yard.

Anyway revenge is dish best eated cold, the same dog escaped again and was rushing towards me..same game , same kit, full punt under the belly, he must have gone aobut 40/50 yards before he hit the deck...Strangley he never bothered me again...no idea why.

However dogs are not my favouirte at all. I find it difficult to understand the attraction but as with all things you are free to own and do as you please, provided those actions are not forced upon me.

In this case Animal Control should be advised, and you should talk calmly to the owner to inform him you have notified Animal Control and that if he does care about his dog he will make sure he is no in aposition toh arm other dogs or people, otherwise the dog will be taken away or worse put down.

[speeder]

Rick, I'm the biggest dog lover you'll ever meet, and I own a (very sweet natured) male German Shepard. A free-roaming, (unrestrained), dog who viscously attacks other passive dogs in a populated area is just completely unacceptable, end of story.

I don't know what the laws are where you live, most cities and towns require dogs to be restrained/controlled. This is also for the protection of the (restrained) dog, he could get run over.

I had a similar situation years ago in Minneapolis. The neighbor's dog, (who was normally restrained), escaped and came over and attacked my dog. I got bit pretty good trying to protect my dog, it was a mess. As you know, these things can unfold so quickly that options are limited. The owner was a real young gangster type, but he was very apologetic and willing to make ammends since he knew what was at stake and cared about his dog, plus he didn't need any unwanted attention from police reports, etc., because he was on parole.

In a measured way, I explained to him that he would be paying for any medical bills related to my bite or my dog, (who was OK), and that this was his "freebie", that if his dog ever wound up in my yard again, there would be no 'talking about it' or the like, he would simply no longer be a dog owner.

It was the type of plain language that he understood, he answered "yes sir", and dragged his dog home, never to happen again.

I would tailor the speech to the individual dog owner, but it should not vary much from that. Good luck, your safety and the safety of your family is not negotiable.

[tabs]

U allready talked to the owner, see what he does to remedy the situation. Did U talk to the owner after the first time? It's a toss up whether U should talk to animal control now, or wait and see what the owner does. If I didn't contact animal control for this incident, I would make the owner aware that if theres a third you will and demand the animal be taken away...A consultation with an attorney might be helpfull, they usually will give a consultation for free.

I can't help wondering why the dog is being agressive??? There is a reason for everything...

I used to take my female Airdale to a paticular dog groomer, my dog never liked the lady.. the lady told me once my dog snapped at her during a grooming session.

Last week I took her to Vet to have a tumor biospied...I asked the vet (a lady) how my dog was with her...The vet replied my dog was very polite and wasn't aggressive at all.

[RickM]

Yep, I'm going to call Animal Control. I'll advise them of the situation and mention to them that I will speak to the owner. What they do is their business. I'm not going to allow this to happen again.

BTW, this guy typically has the dogrestrained and was going on about how he's been trying to have the dog obedience trained. I believe he is very frustrated as well. I feel bad as he is a nice guy and cares full time for his wife who has MS. I bet he feels let down that this dog is not "mans best friend". Many like to think of their pet as an extention of themself.

But, as pointed out, another incident is not allowable.