does anyone get the feeling...
 

that the salad days are over...we are in the declining years of society (mostly focused on the US). All this talk of the "greatest generation" reminds me that the next generation (or current one depending on your cutoff) will *not* have it better than their parents. Advances in medicine and technology will be overrun by spiraling costs and strangling regulation. Our crude attempt to control disease will only result in superbugs that take us back to a time before penicillin. Cities overcrowded (36 Million in CA now), immigration, legal and otherwise rampant, staggering debt, crumbling infrastructure, and the only people willing to run for public office are idiots and egomaniacs.

On a positive note, I bought a helmet today!

Absolutely, but up until 4 years ago I had hope. :(

Good to hear about the helmet! :)

"Whoa, oh mercy mercy me..."

M. Gaye

That pretty much says it all...

Yo Stat, there are hills and valleys. Things will level out.

I almost posted an identical thread last night...hmm I had my TinFoil hat on, how did you do that:)

To me it is the change in mentality of people my age(30) and younger. No one wants to work for anything anymore. I mean my father and many of his friends built small fortunes at mediocre jobs through common sense and hard work. I just don't see that happeneing now. Alot of my buddies live with their parents and still have no savings, though some have nice cars:( I don't know but I hope Mark is right and it's a cyclical thing.

Good topic, nostatic. I do think this is the case, but every time I think it, a little voice says that every new generation thinks this is it. The jig is up.

If you've ever seen "American Beauty," where Chris Cooper is looking over his newspaper and says "The world's going to hell...", that's kind of how I feel about CA at best, and the USA at worst.

I hope I'm wrong, and that I'm just Chris Cooper. But it just seems that we have unprecedented challenges that we are not rising to. Immigration, education, terrorism, religious crazies, political polarization on a scale that I've never seen before.

Even the Roman Empire only lasted a couple hundred years. Every successful civilization has historically had its downfall.

One advantage to being a 6 decades old guy....I figure, at most, I have 20 to go...the nation should be able to hang in there that long, right? "where am I going? why am I in a handbasket?"

Same feeling here. I immigrated to this country 18 years ago. I grew to love it, and there was a time in the late 90's when I was thrilled to be part of it all. Now it looks as though we're falling back into some kind of medieval times, with rich elites, holy wars, terror, and hopelessness.
Mind you, I just spent a year in Germany, and it ain't any prettier there...

What the heck is a "handbasket?" :confused:

Is that someplace you put hands?

SOYLENT GREEN IS MADE OF PEOPLE ! ! ! . . . .

But seriously, I was expecting something along the lines of 9/11 during the millenium crazyness. I guess since the clinton administration was doing a better job of defending the country than bush's things were just delayed a bit.

Welcome to the waning days of the empire. In another 50 years we will probably be another england if not a depressing and statist corporate police state.

Having been born in CA in '61, I can say that I probably saw some of the best years of the state when I was young...more's the pity that I didn't realize it at the time,...although Vietnam was in full swing, my dad had ulcers and I remember that some days in the summer it hurt to breath deep (air pollution).

Another quote which gives some hope (albeit in death) from American Beauty (amazing film):

"I guess I could be really pissed off about what happened to me, but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst. And then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain. And I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life. You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. Don't worry ... you will someday."

Quoting life from movies? Now that's depressing in itself. SmileWavy

Yep what Mark said. Every generation has faced similar obstacles - why exactly is this one going to fail?


So I hope you both are doing more than just sitting all day bi***ing on a BBS. If GW is re-elected we'll know who exactly to blame. :rolleyes: For peets sake, Clinton defending the country????

Same here. It is hard for my wife and I to fend off depression sometimes. We were born and raised in LA and have never really wanted to live anywhere else. But the overall condition of the city, state and country are quite disgusting -- in particular the way our entire "system" is controlled by career politicians who seem to do nothing but fight off their latest scandals with media spin-doctors, and run us further and further into the dark hole of perpetual red-ink by overspending vs. revenues.

Not to mention that we are supposedly in the top <1% of "earners" and yet to sustain a "good" lifestyle here in SoCal still requires busting ass and sacrifice to make ends meet and ensure that basic housing, healthcare, food, clothing and education needs are met without interupption.

It's really bull$**** that a technologically advanced nation such as ours has SO many people struggling to maintain quality of life or even basic survival. And no I am not talking about entitlements or illegal immigrants -- I refer more to anyone (in SoCal at least) who actually "works" for a living!

Hell just travel back East and you'll see how good we have it in CA. For me the bottom line is I can still BBQ my tri-tip in January in my backyard wearing shorts. I'll pay the taxes and get bent over at the gas pump, no problem. My lifestyle involves the outdoors and CA delivers in spades.

I sit here in my $400K house with $45K of cars sitting outside while watching my 53" TV listening through my Dolby surround sound system. I look over at my $3500 Litespeed and think how good it will be to ride it again after this ankle heals from the free operation I got last week. I get up to limp over to my home office to get on the $2K laptop hooked up to the 19" flat screen and I nearly catch my crutches on the cords to the Xbox. What was that ding? Oh that's the buzzer from the Neptune dryer.....

Life just sucks. Damn you George Bush......Damn you all to hell..........

hell yeah!

surf sun snow silicon

I don't know..I have been turning down jobs in CA. The salaries are about the same as here but it costs several times as much to live the same lifestyle (house, car, food, etc). By my computations, I can live about the same here unemployed than making an $85-$90K salary in LA.

Yeah, but your Targa won't be gasping for breath down here at sea level...:D

because the world is a fundamentally different place than at any time in history. The digital revolution and globalization have changed the dynamic forever. Technology advances far outstrip cultural and societal abilities to keep up. The question is can humans keep up, and keep all the balls up in the air.

No. . .that's why we have wars.

Next question.

:p

Well, I wasn't going to answer as terse and succinctly as my friend, Glenn. I will say that what I've realized in my old age is I have the power to pick and choose my battles and realize that I don't need half the ***** the schmuck next door has.

Sure, there's that addage "he who dies with the most toys wins," but it doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if he has a fatal heart attack along the way trying to get more toys.

Jeez, think about it: life's pretty good. At least OUR country isn't being invaded. Anything else is gravy, and IMHO, more junk to worry about.

Keep it simple and real, Yo.

I agree! It was scary fast in LA! I would not be able to keep tires on it there. The dyno shops here estimate a loss of 22% for most cars..but I think it is worse for our cars that start out with breathing problems. My wife and I visted San Diego and LA briefly this year on business...she would like to move there...but the money difference is killer. Maybe it is better to just visit and save the money. At least until I have the necessary funds to live well there irregardless of salary. Florida has a nice climate/ocean and is much cheaper. That is also a good option. I have interviews at Vandenberg (Lompoc CA) and Eglin AFB (Ft Walton Beach FL) in the next couple of weeks and a job offer from Nellis AFB (Las Vegas)...but all pay the same even though the cost of living is much different. I am probably better just staying here because my wife has a decent job here already.

Things are bad all over. I don't need to tell you all things are bad. You know things are bad....Ohh I've allready run that speech...hmm let me see now..Americas Golden Age was after WW2 through the early 1970's then we faced rising competition.... and are now facing a declining standard of living because...Geez I've allready said that to...

I don't know what to say here that I havn't allready said before...

It can be pretty easy to become depressed, especially when there are so many issues surrounding us.

I can tell you I felt the same in my home town in Adelaide, South Australia. It's called the city of churhes and has a reputation for being sleepy, quaint and a 'nice place for families to grow up'.

A few years before I left for Hong Kong, I became really disappointed with the way things were going. There was crap graffitti everywhere, lots of low level violence and some very sick murders. You wouldn't walk the city at night and the surf was becoming a battle ground. Road rage was on the rise, housing prices were crap (very little investment opportunity) and general costs and unemployment were growing. Wages were low and incentive even less.

In Hong Kong for the first five years I felt like this was the place to be. Lots of opportunity everywhere you looked. If you worked hard you were rewarded. Violence was minimal. Your wife could walk the city at 3am (I'd be worried what she was doing if this were the case ;) ) and travel the underground train system and you would not be concerned for her safety.

The past few years unemployment has rocketed, residential property prices are insane and people are getting mugged in country parks every month. Diseases seem to ravage the place and many of the expats are leaving. The standard of English is declining and China is holding a big stick of the SAR's head.

Now I'm off to LA. I get depressed when I hear some of the guys here lament about the decline of the city (state of Ca. included). As an ozzie surfer I always dreamed of the 'life in LA' and I still look forward to it with great anticipation. Having visited it only once so far, LA still really appeals to me but the mass marketing is astonishing.

Again as an Ozzie, we use to be very cynical of Americans who seem to always tells us 'country folk' they were bigger and better. Well, after my albeit brief visit, I now believe, the US IS bigger and better.

Problem around the world is the good people need to get back the control. What the hell does that mean?;) The punks that create violence and theft, push drugs on our kids, the wankers who emit road rage where-ever they go, the self serving beauracrats and dishonest business people need to be overcome.

I'm as mad as hell and I can't take it anymore.....

Rant over...sorry!SmileWavy

If I compare what I have with what my father had at my age, I am a long way in front materially. I doubt I'm better off financially or emotionally. And he went to war at 16 (lied about his age) and got shot down 7 times flying Lancaster bombers over Europe.

He is in the final years of his glorious life and is a happy, contented man. He will rest in peace. If I make it to his age, I wonder whether I'll rest as easily as he will.

I think my point is the emotional stress of life today may be greater than previously. To coin a phrase, life was simpler then.

Well said old man...here here....

I will have more to say about money and it's use when I get around to it. but briefly speaking we in the USA have a credit card mentality, and not one of saving. Also wealth is built not on how much you make but how U use and spend your monies or don't. That is the difference between the current generation and the last generation.

SHOW OFF!!!!

Next you'll be telling us you have a 5 speed handbasket!!! :D :D :D

Randy

I see..bummed about the last friends episode eh.. nostalgic?...don't worry there will be spin-offs and bad movies to keep you going for years.

No need to feel sorry for us easterners. I much prefer to have the contrast of seasons. I honestly can say that much of the Northeastern corridor has access to an extremely diverse set of environments. Are you figuring we all live in a snow covered, run down, ex-blue collar, urban, turnpike town? :cool:

Regarding the subject; I believe it's cyclical as well. I recall kids cruising through life living with mom and having everything handed to them. Some are probably still doing it. Is it more common place now?

What is obvious to me is how I used to go out to play with my buddies and take off into the woods for the day (during the summer)...coming back home around dinner time. Today I wouldn't let my daughter out of eyesight while on our property. Have child abductions increased that much for me to be so protective? Population density has certainly increased, so that has probably influenced the relative amount of occurances.....or is it that modern communication exposes many more incidents so it's less hidden? (Heightened awareness)

On another tangent, I do think the US's days are numbered as the sole SuperPower. It's simply a metter of time before China or a few co-ordinated nations show their hand. The "Becoming England" (or even Japan for that matter) does indeed seem accurate.

...........

As a part of the younger generation or the new ones coming - I am determined to bring society back to some sort of respectable level but not that I believe in evolution but I think that some of the problems will go away and other have to be addressed head on. This can open up many many issues.
I have seen a great deal of changes in the the past decade of my life but if you can change one person then you have made a difference and society still has a chance. My mother is a teacher and she teaches in a correction high school and every day she helps someone that is a drug user, gang banger etc get back on the right track to getting a high school diploma.
But in all honesty, just living your life to the utmost and best you can is all you can ask for yourself and try to make a difference in someone else's life and you will feel a little better. But as was said earlier - society has its hills and valleys so it will come back. Maybe my generation will get up and say this is enough bull.
And I miss some of the classic 80s TV shows, network tv is horrible except for Smallville.

What about Nick-at-Nite? ;)

The onme show I miss is Lost in Space.

We now return you back to the thread......

Actually, I have never seen an episode of Friends. And never will. Just because.

Things could be worse. This morning I drove my son to school in the SC, we parked on the usual street a few blocks away, skipped most of the way to school, then got a big hug at the classroom door, and we were off.

Now to write lyrics for the new tune I came up with at rehearsal this week...

Life sounds just fine....

Oh, so you didn't get the joke I made about the "smelly bush" song . . . I hope those lyrics weren't too catchy for ya. . . .could be embarassing :D

The sky is falling the sky is falling...oh that was just some bird **** that fell on my head....Oh well!

I'm not trying to start anything (although I'm sure it will look like I am).

But every time people complain (myself included) about life here in these United States, I stop and think about the time I spent on a job in Indonesia. And I remember what a cesspool that country is in comparison to, say, NYC, or LA, or SLC, or Phoenix, or even Columbus, Ohio.

And it's not just 3rd world countries that are like this. I've been to "industrialized" nations where as soon as you get out of "civilization" (i.e., downtown) you'd think you were walking amidst cavemen.

Not to mention the uplifting feeling you get of being the wrong color and religion and everyone around you hating you for that fact.

We really do have it good here.

With Campy components!

Very interesting question(s) and philosophical/anthropological thought. I'm going to refrain from politiking here except to make the observation that our practices of conspicuous consumption do not seem to be maximizing our happiness. Hmmmm......

Our cars are built to spec, and they must be maintained and adjusted and operated to spec. When we try to operate the vehicle outside those design specs, synergy disappears and disaster strikes. Downshift, 9000 rpm.....the motor becomes a junk metal container. I liken this to our human condition. In spite of our amazing resilience, I'd argue that humans are built to some finite design specs. Operate this machine outside those specs and you're asking for trouble. It looks like most of us are asking for trouble these days. Are we all shocked that cancer rates are high and rising? Perhaps we need more unpronounceable chemicals in our lives. Heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc. Maybe we should spend more time on our asses with remote controls and mouses in our hands.

Nostatic, true to form, takes his beloved child to school, and deloberately incorporates a walk taht concludes with terms of endearment and a hug. I think we might all recognize him as perhaps the wisest of us all, here. I do. We are designed to live our lives in the context of community. Not just "a" community. Community, and all that represents. But our economic system prefers that we NOT have each other to rely on, but rather that we are each at the mercy of our earnings and our employer or business. "Security" is a word with as twisted a meaning as "freedom" these days. Okay, sorry for the gratuitous politiking.

I think Nostatic (again, I am hardly surprized) is raising arguably the largest and most important question in our lives today. How do we live, how can this work better, and how do we get there? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Tax breaks for corporations. (Oops...sorry again)

Couldn't resist man, you touched me:) AIGF

Kumbayah
Kumbayah, my Lord, kumbayah.
Kumbayah, my Lord, kumbayah.
Kumbayah, my Lord, kumbayah.
Oh Lord, kumbayah.

Someone's singing, Lord, kumbayah…
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbayah…
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