Peace protesters (venting)

[djmcmath]

So this morning I'm driving on base, and there's a bunch of people standing out in front of the base with big signs announcing that the military is stupid, that we should have peaceful jobs instead, and that the war is a terrible thing. Make love, not war. Bring our boys home. We need peaceful jobs. Right, I remember hearing there'd be a big Mother's Day protest. This is the warmup for Monday's event, I guess.

(excessively cynical) Maybe they're right. Maybe we shouldn't be in Iraq, Afghanistan, or wherever else, not that anybody driving on this base has the authority to make a decision like that. Maybe I ought to quit this stupid job, maybe I should quit defending their right to complain. I mean, I'm getting competitive offers from the outside -- maybe it's worth it. I could give up this whole "going to sea" thing, get a pay raise, have a normal life ... Maybe we as a country should just shut down the military and forget about it, and hope that the Chinese come take over and take away our right to complain about anything. (end excessive cynicism)

(sigh) Just venting, don't mind me. On the one hand, I hate those morons, but on the other hand, I know that it's my job to protect them and they're right to disagree, no matter how stupid I think they are. I wonder if any of them realize how disheartening it is? Do they realize what effect they have on morale? Do they know what the people at this base do for them? (sigh)

I don't mean to start another big political thing, I don't want to argue about the war, and I'm not fishing for "thanks fer yer service, maan." It's just frustrating sometimes. I know people who have made some pretty significant sacrifices to do this "Navy" thing, and it's painful to get this kind of a response. I'm just venting...


Thanks for listening.


Dan

[techweenie]

"Bring our boys home."

I can agree with that. I don't want these kids dying because of a personal vendetta by GW.

When I was stationed at Ft. Lewis, I didn't see any protests, but I would have taken it the right way if I had. There's a much bigger problem if a handful of protesters can damage military morale.

[VaSteve]

I see those people every Monday outside the Pentagon. Drive me nuts. Maybe they think that influencing the rank and file at the bottom, they can influence the top? They stand by the Metro entrance probably because they aren't allowed to stand where the top brass enters/exits.

I know that a lot of folks join the mlitary because their towns had no good jobs and they needed a future (as well as other reason, serve the country, etc.) What kind of job do these people have to be able to take off every Monday and stand out there?

Kinda bugs me that they protest against the means to allow them to be free and protest. Weird huh?

[pwd72s]

Many more than those kooks support our military...we're conspicuous by our absence from such "demonstrations"...
Even tho you said not to say it? This old goat thanks you all for your service...

[VenezianBlau 87]

Dan,

I was married once so I should have learned that it's best not to answer a vent; but, I'm a slow learner.

I'm surprised the protests of a motley collection of human detritus would bother you and your mates. But, I can only imagine what service is like now. They can't affect the leaders so they go after those under command.

It's easy and intellectually fashionable to question those who take actions to solve problems. In a more frustrating time of life, I used to say "if in doubt, do nothing". It's easier to defend a difficult position resulting from inaction rather than one resulting from action. In other words, passivity "seems" virtuous and carries with it the pleasures of second-guessing those who act.

Similarly, I quote Churchill remarking on Chamberlain's signing the Munich pact with Hitler: "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war."

Good luck,
Bob (In the early stages of becoming a ranting curmudgeon)

[Moneyguy1]

Man...Brings back images of the VN era......without the VW microbuses with flower decals, though...

I remember being a vet and attending night school at the local university in the late 60s. Sometimes it was difficult just getting into the class buildings with all the sit ins, signs, handouts, you name it.

Being an "old guy" certainly brings home the idea that History seems to repeat itself at regular intervals.

[speeder]

It's funny when someone in the military mouths the line about "protecting our freedoms", and at the same time voices total contempt for people exercising their 1st Amendment right to assemble and peacefully protest government policy. I know that there are more intelligent people in uniform who understand that they did not "give me this right", I had it before they were born, and see the irony of this type of jingoistic stupidity. People join the military for a wide variety of reasons, if you think that you are just "serving the public" with that attitude, STFU and do your job. Or do something else, it's an all volunteer service these days. (And since before you were born, most likely).

And just to clear something up, your present employers are not paying you to defend the rights of Mother's Day protesters. If they had their way, these protests would be illegal. But due to some pesky laws passed a long time ago, that's just the way it is.

The question for you is: who are you serving? All Americans? The 40% who support the president and his policies? Halliburton? If you are not serving all of us, get a different job. Please. Have a nice day!

[joeclarke]

Thanks for listening.

No problem, but I'm done now...

Thanks for trying to get over yourself.

The arrogance of the hawkish crowd is amazing sometimes.

OK I'll wave away the Churchill quote (because the attempt at a parallel between Hussien and Hitler is ridiculous) and counter with words from a guy with a bit more on the ball:

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."

That kooky nutball war-monger himself - Albert Einstein

I'm sure Mr Einstein wasn't thinking about military personnel in making that statement, at least not those that keep there minds open to broader possibilities than those preached by their leaders.

[Moneyguy1]

It's DOCTOR to you, Dumbkopf.......

Just kidding.......Have to have a LITTLE fun here on occasion....

Love the Doctor..He had a number of things to say on a number of topics and most of them right to the point.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Wow, so it does turn out you libs are one big collection of *********s after all.

[RallyJon]

Wow, so it does turn out you libs are one big collection of *********s after all.

My thought exactly. It must be painful to walk around choking down the volume of bile that some people clearly save up to spout on this forum.

Political debate and discussion is interesting, but when a heartfelt post like Dan's gets pissed on that way, it's clear that there are no open minds here.

shoot them.

[joeclarke]

Heartfelt post?

I hate those morons, but on the other hand, I know that it's my job to protect them and they're right to disagree, no matter how stupid I think they are.

Why do you expect that if you're in the military you earn some special dispensation about being able to hurl your views - while at the same time being insulated from contrary views on the basis of such being unAmerican or non-supportive?

[araine901]

Speeder, Dude you need some serious therapy. Try Anger managment. Your posts are prety venomious. I thought us righty's were the venomous uncareing bunch. I guess I was wrong.

[djmcmath]

I've thought about replying several times to this mess today. I've written long posts and stopped before posting several times. There's a lot of bitterness floating around out there.

I guess "hate" is a pretty strong word. In reality, I don't hate them so much as I feel pity for them, in retrospect. Poor souls too blind to realize what they're doing, or the effect that they're having. I don't expect any special right to share my views, but I do find it disheartening when people rise against us because of our profession, especially when our profession is sworn to protect them, even in their hatred of us.

Tech -- I'd be curious as to what you think is wrong with the military. I've been pondering that problem for years now, and have come up short on a definitive answer. Any insight you might have would be greatly appreciated. (Yes, I'm serious, that's not sarcastic.)

Speeder -- my oath is to protect and defend the constitution. I have no sworn fealty to a particular individual, ethnic group, or political party. Yes, I will vote for Bush, but if Kerry wins, I'll serve him instead, just as I'd serve Bush. I guess what gets me is the irony -- the military sacrifices equally for all, though mostly the ones we see are the ones who disrespect our sacrifice.

In clarification of my original post -- I can't honestly say I hate anyone, really. It is just quite difficult sometimes to stomach the routine protests around here, and I thought I'd vent some. Thanks to those who understood from where I was coming.


Dan

[fintstone]

Dan
A lot of the kooks protest our bases whether we are at war or not...so apparently it is not peace they are after...maybe a bad experience playing with a GI Joe doll in childhood. I also wonder what they do for a living...probably the welfare crowd. They sure look like a freak show. At least they don't seem to want spit on us as much any more...except on college campuses. A guy just barely missed my daughter in ROTC attire just a few days ago. When he realized that she was one of the pretty cheerleaders under the uniform...he tried to pretend it was an accident. What is this country coming to when a man would spit on a woman for wearing a uniform? They are such brave little punks. They know you would be court martialed if you responded.

I was stopped at the red light going out the gate the other day when a young punk got all puckered up as if to spit in my open targa. I let him know real quick that unlike the active duty guys, as a retiree, I would not hesitate to get out and kick his ass. He swallowed it.

The sad part is that the folks that the protest crap really hurts is the young guy...lonely and away from his family for the first time...and the military life is certainly not easy. Tends to drive the first term AWOL/desertion/suicide rate up.

Originally posted by Mark Wilson
shoot them.

[joeclarke]

Hey Dan - I think that most of us view the comments placed and received here as being fundamentally impersonal. So your remarks are addressed in that context.

I respect your personal choices and actions in context of your occupation (been there - done that) on an individual level, as do most Americans, but there is a distinction between that respect and the subjective view of the military actions of our government. And the expression of those subjective views is much more important in a free society than the need to pat you and yours on the back for "givin' one for the gipper"

Can you understand the difference?

OK - we all tight here...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

There was nothing "fundamentally impersonal" about your comments, Mr. clarke.

[techweenie]

djmcmath:
"Tech -- I'd be curious as to what you think is wrong with the military. I've been pondering that problem for years now, and have come up short on a definitive answer. Any insight you might have would be greatly appreciated. "

??? I'm puzzled by the question. If you mean my reference to the notion that morale should be high enough to withstand a few protesters, i thought that was obvious.

It is the job of the command structure to inculcate a sense of purpose and duty in the troops, and to bring perspective, especially when there is a substantial portion of the population (over a third) that doesn't support military action in Iraq.

My officers were extremely tolerant of expressions of dissent and doubt in the ranks. They simply drew the line at non-response to direct orders.