RE: Abstinence before marriage

[dd74]

Blue brings up a good point. What about living together? I truly believe a person knows another person only after they live together. Only then should marriage be considered.

But then living together might lead to sex, moral exclusion, and damnation follows of course. But at least you know who you're bunking with.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
I'm sorry as well, Z-man--frankly I've had one too many people tell me (or my friends) that I'm "going to Hell" for my beliefs or my choices. So I'm a little quick to take offense sometimes.

I would never condem you to hell. Maybe to HECK, but not to HELL! (Just kidding!) Though I may not necessarily agree with your beliefs, I do my best not to cast judgement on anyone. (Unfortunately, sometimes I do cast judgement - that's a part of being human & flawed. . . but I digress)

BSJ:
Back to the analogy, however. There's a saying that some of my psych friends have: "Good sex is 10% of the marriage. Bad sex is 90% of the marriage." I simply don't see how you can semi-permanently limit yourself to one sex partner if you don't know that you're compatible sexually, spiritually, ethically, politically, domestically, and most-other-allys.

Agreed! HOWEVER: it has been documented that as a couple's phsycial aspect of a relationship (ie: sex life) becomes more and more emphasized, all the other aspects of a relationship (mental, emotional, spiritual...etc) are deminished. However, if a couple develops a healthy emotional, mental and spiritual aspect of a relationship, ALL aspects of a relationship (including the sex part) will develop stronger.

All too often, a new couple is so pre-occupied with sex that they fail to develop the other aspects, whether that's pre-marital sex, or post marital sex! Then 5 years down the line, they realize they don't know anything about the other person, and start looking for divorce lawyers. This is unfortunate.

Obviously, I'm generalizing here.

BSJ:
My wife and I lived together for years before getting married. I can be a pretty tough person to live with (just ask my former roommates). Fortunately my wife is either tolerant or thinks my quirks are "cute". I'm guessing the former.

I am not saying that one shouldn't develop a relationship with someone before getting married: I just don't think that sex is necessary to understand another person. Not to sound to crude, but I don't think you have to worry about the parts fitting when it comes to sex.
Kim and I dated for a year, and we were engaged for a year before we got married. We stayed over her parents house, and a few times she 'slept' over my place, but we didn't partake of the 'forbidden fruit.' (We did 'make out' & do other stuff, but I'd rather not go into details - I'm a shy type, ya know! )
But we felt that the two years of courtship was sufficient for us to know what we were getting into. Of course, we were wrong! There was a lot more to both of us that we discovered through our years of marriage. (There were some difficult times) But getting to know each other prior to marriage gave us a sufficient foundation to continue to develop our relationship. (And yeah, I must admit that often the physical aspect of our relationship took priority).

Ok, now I'm rambling a little. Sorry.

Good discussion. Thanks!
-Z-man.

[Moses]

I had a friend in college whose very religious mother was so offended by the thought of masturbation that when he was a little boy his mother made him pee without touching his penis. He would stand there with his hands behind his back and pee all over the place. Apparently chastity was more important than aim.

He was a well adjusted guy who laughed at the absurdity. Somehow most of us turn out OK despite the bizarre sexual neurosis of our society.

[jm951]

True abstinance works, plain and simple. Education on the posible outcomes for not abstaining helps reinforce that fact. Outcomes for not abstaining range from unwanted children to STDs, some of which cannot be cured.

The lack of understanding of the Bible by both nonChristians and others shows itself over and over again. A previous post suggested the Sodomites were engaging in beastiality, read the scriptures, it was homosexuality. Next those who choose to engage in sin saying "I choose not to have a silly religion" will belittle us Christians with the "judge not" passages without truly understanding the meaning of the Scriptures. Judging is a job reserved for God. We Christians aren't the ones deciding who goes to hell and who doesn't. God does that, but the Bible is pretty clear on who goes where and on what constitutes sin, read Romans 1. The Bible lays it out so Christians can recognize sin and strive to avoid it. It does not say that sex is bad or evil, just outside of a committed marriage relationship it is fornication.

Z-man-

Wife and I are now finishing year 24. We didn't do the nasty before walking to the altar either. Life with a spouse is as much a journey as anything else. The advantage a truly committed Christian couple have is that they will work at staying together because of a vow made in front of God. There are very few Biblical reasons for divorce, like one and that is adultery. Nice to see another Christian on the board.

[woodman]

There are a lot of opinions on the matter of pre marital sex being offered here. Most people here have a definite view one way or another. The question of what you base your beliefs upon needs to be asked. Is it just feeling, emotion, culture or the Bible. The Bible is very clear on all of the issues of life that matter.

For those who wonder what the "real interpretation" of certain passages in scripture really say, will you believe it if is says verbatum "Do not have sex outside of marriage"? I know it's easy to twist and contort words found therein to make what we do seem ok. If your at that point, then you know what the Bible says is true, and you choose to cast it aside.

[jm951]

The main issue with Christians v the "rest of society" seems to be rooted in a couple of things. First off, it is extremely rare for a Christian to be portrayed in any positive fashion in the media, beit movies, tv, or print. If the same thing were to happen to say, blacks of homosexuals, there'd be tons of lawsuits and a huge uproar. Second, folks don't like to be told that what they're engaging in is wrong, especially if it feels good to them at the time. So we are in the minority. I can deal with that. But the majority who think that good deeds and living a good life will get them to heaven are sorely and sadly mistaken and the Scriptures are very clear on this point as well.

If anyone is interested in really knowing what is being said in the Scriptures, get several versions. The meaning of words since the KJV was published has changed. There are editions called "Parrallel" Bibles that have several versions of each verse side by side. Strong's concordance can help with referencing the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Another study aid would be an "Amplified" Bible. The point I'm driving at here is that it's easy for a nonChristian to take snippets of KJV and twist the actual meaning to suit whatever they want it to mean. That they can't twist is usually ignored, like "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me." That says nothing about works, deeds, or a good life, but by belief in Christ as Saviour only.

Any of you out there who are Christians who are afraid to speak up because of fear of ridicule by the libs and society in general, read Titus and don't be afraid to contend for the faith. Peter denied Christ three times when pressed, so it's a common failing. Do something about it. Stand up and be counted.

[woodman]

I'm standing up bro!!

[dad911]

Originally posted by jm951
..... But the majority who think that good deeds and living a good life will get them to heaven are sorely and sadly mistaken and the Scriptures are very clear on this point as well.

....... No man comes to the Father but by me." That says nothing about works, deeds, or a good life, but by belief in Christ as Saviour only.......

Wow, I had always wanted to go to heaven, but frankly, I want no part of a salvation that excludes whole races, populations, and my non-christian friends & family.

I'll just continue to take my chances with good deeds, and living a good life. However, I may reconsider sins & confession, as it might work out better in the long run....

[BlueSkyJaunte]

No man comes to the Father but by me." That says nothing about works, deeds, or a good life, but by belief in Christ as Saviour only

Well, now we know why society is going down the *****ter. "Hey, as long as I believe in Christ I can do anything I want."

[widebody911]

Originally posted by jm951
The main issue with Christians v the "rest of society" seems to be rooted in a couple of things.

...one of which are these tiresome, holier than all-hell, prostelyzing diatribes to which we are subjected to at regular intervals...

Where's a lion when you really need one?

[Burnin' oil]

Does anything good come out of these discussions?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Nope!

[dd74]

Here's the main question: How many of you guys were virgins before you were married?

Isabo can answer too if she pleases, but since this is mostly men arguing for both sexes here, I thought I'd pose it them.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Well, I know a guy who had is virginity restored after he was born again.

Whatever.

[Aurel]

I just can`t stand people who, beleiving that they know better, or that they have higher moral standards, want to impose their view of the world onto others. This is true for wanting to impose democracy to others, wanting to prevent gay marriages, wanting to forbid people from aborting, or wanting people not to have sex before marriage. Those are all private issues, and history shows that those who claim those higher standards usually happen not being any better than anbody else. And most of the time worse, because of the hypocrisy associated with their attitude.

Aurel

[dd74]

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
Well, I know a guy who had is virginity restored after he was born again.

Whatever.

[Serge914]

Different country, different culture. Over here mariage is not quite popular anyway so we dont't have this dilemna.

[Isabo]

Originally posted by dd74
Here's the main question: How many of you guys were virgins before you were married?

Isabo can answer too if she pleases, but since this is mostly men arguing for both sexes here, I thought I'd pose it them.

As no one has answered I'll get the ball rolling.

No I wasn't. Nor was my husband. Two Christian virgins on honeymoon together just seems like a recipe for disaster or possibly a very staid and boring sex life, and I have to agree very strongly with Blue: "Good sex is 10% of the marriage. Bad sex is 90% of the marriage." We sowed our wild oats and then got on with a good marriage.

[Isabo]

Originally posted by Aurel
I just can`t stand people who, beleiving that they know better, or that they have higher moral standards, want to impose their view of the world onto others. This is true for wanting to impose democracy to others, wanting to prevent gay marriages, wanting to forbid people from aborting, or wanting people not to have sex before marriage. Those are all private issues, and history shows that those who claim those higher standards usually happen not being any better than anbody else. And most of the time worse, because of the hypocrisy associated with their attitude.

Aurel

Ain't that the truth!!!
And reformed sinners and born again christians seem the worst.

[Isabo]

Originally posted by Z-man

I am not saying that one shouldn't develop a relationship with someone before getting married: I just don't think that sex is necessary to understand another person. Not to sound to crude, but I don't think you have to worry about the parts fitting when it comes to sex.


-Z-man.

There is no getting away from the fact that sex is important in a marriage. Sex between a couple is a part of getting to know each other and as a generalisation I believe a couple should know each other as well as possible before tying themselves together for life. There is much more to good sex than the bits fitting together and knowing how to use them, this comes with experience and is easier for some and for some couples than others.