The Abu Ghraib prison scandal - Rumsfeld's decision?

dd74 · 05-16-2004, 09:59 AM

This article states the decision on prisoner treatment came straight from the top. Hmmm...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/15/iraq.abuse.main/index.html

350HP930 · 05-16-2004, 10:19 AM

No surprise there. The only question is what excuse they will switch to after the denials once official paperwork proves the allegations.

My bet is that it will be 'we only mean't to scare them into revealing secrets, not abuse them'.

dd74 · 05-16-2004, 10:52 AM

My feeling is if this pans out to be true, Rumsfeld will resign. It must be fairly serious for the White House to state "...outlandish, conspiratorial, and filled with error and anonymous conjecture."

araine901 · araine901's Garage

The artical says the Pentigon made that denial, and It says it was his goal to bring it to Iraq. Did it say he brought the same one from Afganistan over? I guess this shows we can read into things what we want.

lendaddy · 05-16-2004, 12:35 PM

Yes, I'm sure they'll find the smoking memo where Rummy instructed them to piss on the detainies. please. Worst case Rummy said do as much as you can within the rules, and I would applaud him for saying so, and so should you. These guys (some of them) have very valuable information regarding people who want to kill us, think maybe we should try to obtain said information?

turbo6bar · 05-16-2004, 02:00 PM

I would be accused of lacking decency, but after the beheading of Berg, the prision scandal really does not bother me. Well, actually I don't approve of hazing for no purpose, but if the hazing and abuse is to extract information, I approve. Call me jaded or a realist. Your pick.
jürgen

EDIT: As far as Rumsfield, there are bigger issues over which to worry.

dd74 · 05-16-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Worst case Rummy said do as much as you can within the rules, and I would applaud him for saying so, and so should you. These guys (some of them) have very valuable information regarding people who want to kill us, think maybe we should try to obtain said information?

I don't applaud "Rummy" for jack *****. He had his ass handed to him when he testified because he's completely out of the loop and out of touch with every aspect of this war. So many people are calling for his resignation, he had to run to Iraq to escape the heat.

More directly, a blanket statement like "get whatever information you can within in the rules," opens up another big can of worms. What rules? Whose rules? What's the rule? Don't kill the bastards? That reassures that he's out of touch w/o giving specific rules.

Say that to the kid that comes to date your daughter: "Do whatever you want within the rules." Yeah, real direct.

And what valuable information? LOL. Whatever information they have hasn't made the war proceed any better.

ronin · 05-16-2004, 03:01 PM

hmm. first you say that "Rummy" is responsible for it all, and then you say he's out of the loop. which is it?

dd74 · 05-16-2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronin
hmm. first you say that "Rummy" is responsible for it all, and then you say he's out of the loop. which is it?

Out of the loop as far as not knowing how the interrogation process proceeded. Responsible? That's the article, not me. At least I did not intend on saying he was directly responsible for the torture. Nonetheless, his directive toward interrogation should have been clearer.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

There is not one bit of information in the article to support the supposition. No fair minded news source would print stuff like that without evidence. talk about a biased media. Of course last week, the Bostoin Globe printed pictures of GIs supposedly gang-raping an Iraqi woman....turns out the pictures came from a porno website. These guys will do anything to try to make the administration look bad. Since they can't find anything...they make it up.

Aurel · Aurel's Garage

Rumsfeld is the worst liar I have ever seen, and he deserves all the blame. I cant wait to see him get fired. Oldsters like like should be retired, or give him an M16 and let him go fight his war on terror in Iraq, instead of sending clueless youngsters get killed for him.

Aurel

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Aurel
Rumsfeld is the worst liar I have ever seen, and he deserves all the blame. I cant wait to see him get fired. Oldsters like like should be retired, or give him an M16 and let him go fight his war on terror in Iraq, instead of sending clueless youngsters get killed for him.
Aurel

Yes, you are right...lets get a democrat in there who is a good liar.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I don't want Rumsfeld fired.

I want him to remain the stain on the administration that he is.

Now that he's flown to Iraq, maybe we can next expect him to don a flight suit and land on a carrier.

lendaddy · 05-16-2004, 07:18 PM

DD, There are standards we (and the world..GC) have agreed upon regarding the allowable extent of interrogation. I know this, you know this, hell my dog probably knows this. So why would you pretend they don't exist? Anyway, I am not naive enough to believe every country in the world doesn' cross these lines on a regular basis. I have NO problem with rummy saying "push the envelope, we need info". Problem for you is you will not get such a smoking gun. I could not be happier with his performance so far. Keep up the good work I say.

lendaddy · 05-16-2004, 07:20 PM

Funny thing is, when one of these humps we just released performs the next bombing or kills an American soldier you will be the first one saying "Why didn't they hold him. Why didn't they get any info out of him?"

araine901 · araine901's Garage

Aurel, I have copied your post of "Clueless" youngsters to some of my firneds serving in Iraq. I wonder what thier repsonse will be?

Aurel · Aurel's Garage

No, we will say: why are there american soldiers there to start with ?

Aurel

lendaddy · 05-16-2004, 07:33 PM

Being French you wouldn't know and would probably fail an exam on it after a four year study session on the subject.

AIGF

speeder · speeder's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Funny thing is, when one of these humps we just released performs the next bombing or kills an American soldier you will be the first one saying "Why didn't they hold him. Why didn't they get any info out of him?"

Len, You could use that rationale to torture anyone w/ a towel on their head from now until kingdom come. When will you guys realise that "Rummy", the sweet old douchebag, must own stock in Terrorism Inc.? If I wanted to cause more terrorism, I couldn't think of the things that they are coming up with. Damage the holiest shrines? Torture and humiliate inocent people, (and guilty ones I'm sure), and distribute the pictures?

What happened to Nick Berg was terrible, but to pretend that it occured in some kind of vacuum is dishonest to the core. I blame sweet "Rummy" for that one. How that guy sleeps at night is an endless mystery to me.

lendaddy · 05-16-2004, 07:37 PM

"I blame sweet "Rummy" for that one. How that guy sleeps at night is an endless mystery to me."

After seeing the images and no doubt parts of the video, you say the above? Classic.... I saw atleast 5 guys that would get my vote for "responsible". You gots some sick ideas in that melon.