Rumsfeld solves the abuse problem
 

Rumsfeld has banned all cell phones with picture taking ability from Iraq.

Presumably on the assumption we won't get upset about what we can't see...

On the other hand, the right-wind spin machine was in top gear last week, with Miller, Limbaugh et. al. repeating over and over some story about prisoners having "womens panties put on their heads" as if that were the worst torture applied to prisoners. They timed this spin to coincide with the second round of pictures -- two of people posing with a dead prisoner and one of a feces-covered prisoner.

You thought I was being cynical.

Look at the quote I found:

"It is the photographs that gives one the vivid realization of what actually took place. Words don’t do it. ... You see the photographs, and you get a sense of it, and you cannot help but be outraged." -- Donald Rumsfeld

Y'yeah . ."Outrage. . ."I'm OFFended. . .

:rolleyes:

Frankly if you really want to talk about torture you need to talk to American prisoners of the Viet Nam era, or persons interogated by the KGB during the cold war, or office workers looking out the 103rd floor of the World Trade Center and seeing a 747 headed at you. I know it's just me (and I'm full of it ....right ) but panties on someones head (while it's still attached to one's neck) or a naked man piramid really doesn't sound too tragic to me. And who amongst us hasn't had some bimbo point at our penis and laugh out loud......OK well maybe that is just me.

"And who amongst us hasn't had some bimbo point at our penis and laugh out loud......OK well maybe that is just me."

Still beats having someone point at your dead body and laugh.

For me, those few men have dishonored the entire US army. I have lost my respect for US soldiers, period. It is not a matter of debating whether it was torture or not. When I see a moron with a sadistic/amused grin on their face looking at a dead body, I need not see anything else. Respect is lost.

Aurel

..and a lot of people will lose sleep over that.

Problem is, it is not just me...

Aurel

How can you lose something you never had???http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1085429238.jpg

Well now it is gone for sure.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1085429953.jpg

Aurel

that material doesn't go with her skin color at all. Can we get the Fab 5 to fix this up a bit?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif

And those soldiers continue to give thier lives for your freedom!!
Aren't you the fortunate one?

Hang on, let me get this straight -- a Frenchman has lost respect for American soldiers? Are we talking about the same French, the ones that haven't had a military victory since Waterloo? What a riot ...

Would this be abuse?

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Advertisement






Here's a story no American news organization thought worth covering last week, so you'll just have to take it from me. In the southern Iraqi town of Amara, 20 men from Scotland's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders came under attack from 100 or so of Muqtada al-Sadr's ''insurgents.'' So they fixed bayonets and charged.

It was the first British bayonet charge since the Falklands War 20 years ago. And at the end of it some 35 of the enemy were dead in return for three minor wounds on the Argylls' side.

If you're used to smart bombs, unmanned drones and doing it all by computer back at HQ, you're probably wondering why a modern Western army is still running around with bayonets at the end of their rifles. The answer is that it's a very basic form of psychological warfare.

''If you're defending a position and you see someone advancing with a bayonet, you may be more inclined to surrender,'' Col. Ed Brown told the British newspaper the Guardian. ''I've never been bayoneted, but I can imagine it's pretty gruesome.'' Or as Cpl. Jones, veteran of the Sudan, used to say every week on the ancient BBC sitcom ''Dad's Army'': ''They don't like it up 'em.''

Admit it, they were just breaking up an innocent wedding party.

Actually, the French LOST at Waterloo. They got *****in worked by Wellington (Brits) and some Prussians. SmileWavy

I'm stealing this quote from Time magazine, but it reflects how I think.

You know that feeling you all had when you saw the pictures from Abu Graib - the disgust that "Americans could do that".

Vast parts of the rest of the world saw you like that BEFORE the pictures came out - the pictures have only intensified the feelings.

In Time, the quote was something along the lines of "forcing Americans to see themselves how the world sees them".

So Kevin, while you might be right in that the US is not the worst perpertrator of torture ever, you're wrong because the standard required of you is so much higher. In particular given you apparently invaded Iraq solely on humanitarian grounds :rolleyes:.

Good point -- corrected sentence should read "...haven't had a victory since before Waterloo?" :)

Dan

I can't even begin to argue that point. Your absolutly RIGHT.
I just wish our President (or whom ever made the decision to invade) had the balls to call it what it was, A Freakin Invasion, and NOT have to tippy toe around some politcal arena destined to be second guessed and criticized . The Middle East has been a can of worms ( or more correctly a bag of rattlesnakes) and I think the U.S. should either get out now, completely and for ever, or turn that damn desert to glass and start selling our newly acquired oil to the rest of the world.

Re: Rumsfeld solves the abuse problem
 

Did it ever cross your mind that it might be to prevent them from taking pictures of POWs which is against the rules? First you complain that he doesn't do enough to stop abuse...now he is doing too much.

In most military areas all cameras are alredy banned without written permission due to security.

Well it makes sense that, if pictures of soldiers' coffins cannot be taken as they were in all previous wars and police actions, then pictures of POW's cannot be taken either. We'll just have to drag out our pictures of coffins from previous wars. I'm sure someone will explain why it makes such clear sense to sensor this particular war, because I don't get it. Heck, I'll admit that from my ignorant perspective it looks almost as if the White House wants to conceal the ugliness of this particular war. But then, I'm expecting this to be explained to me. One of the great mysteries. Like how trickle-down economics, and other similar terms you don't hear any more, is a brilliant idea even though the tracking of economic indicators would seem to suggest otherwise. Again, I must not be very smart. Someone help.

"Did it ever cross your mind that it might be to prevent them from taking pictures of POWs which is against the rules?"

Then he'd better take their rifles away so they don't hit prisoners with them. Really, Fintstone, you are infantilizing the U.S. military. Whatever happened to discipline?

"First you complain that he doesn't do enough to stop abuse...now he is doing too much."

No, he is not doing anything I am aware of.

Are making up words as you go along?:confused:

According to the webster online, infantilizing is a true english word:

One entry found for infantilize.




Main Entry: in·fan·til·ize
Pronunciation: 'in-f&n-"tI-"lIz, -f&n-t&l-"Iz; in-'fan-t&l-"Iz
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz·ing
1 : to make or keep infantile
2 : to treat as if infantile
- in·fan·til·i·za·tion /"in-f&n-"tI-l&-'zA-sh&n, -f&n-t&l-&-; in-"fan-t&l-&-/ noun

Aurel

I think you will find the coffin rule to have originated in another administration. Most military operations have been off limits to photograph...for at least the last 30 years. It is nothing new. I still have file letters where I had to get permission..even in peace time. Due to security, most military areas will not even let you bring a cell phone inside...much less one with a camera.

LOL, not having a large vocabulary is not the same thing as other people making up words you don't understand.

The president has found an even better solution than Rumsfeld: They will destroy the Abu Grahib prison. Soooo Smart. To be anounced in a few minutes in his adress to the nation...

Aurel

geeze HP, you're really embracing your new word.

I asked everyone in the trailer park and aint no body else heard of that word to. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/dom.gif

It's all about managing the media. Remember the embedded journalists? Rummy will distribute any video or pictures that make America look good, but as soon as the pictures are either unpleasant or wrong, Rummy tries to censor them.

I have two real issues with what happened in Abu Grahib.
1. It makes America look really bad. Although most Americans don't care because they believe the US is the center of the universe and can do no wrong.

2. Will US soldiers have any chance if they are captured by the enemy? If I were an Iraqi, after seeing those pictures....

Time to say SmileWavy to Rummy.

Hmm, I thought the French won WW1? They lost that one too?
My friends in Europe and South America really hate America (Bushs policies not the average Joe Blow people) even more now that the pics have come out. Now we have no moral ground to stand on so what are the conservatives gonna do other than blame the liberals? What else is new .... Tired of the "Wave the Flag, shoot to kill" mentality of you guys. Maybe we should just try to get along-with the rest of the world!

Geoff

Long-Term Boomerang Effects of Detainee Mistreatment
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1085454518.gif





I liked this one so much, I thought I'd share.

Ed

Rumsfeld bans the cameras: good! Because how many more *****-covered prisoners does anyone need to see? If you want to look at another crop of prisoners with leashes around their necks, getting wired up while standing on crates, or having batons shoved up their bums, then you're sick; not concerned.

As for me, I'm already desensitized (sp?) to the whole thing: the first round of shots did it for me. Is there something new in torture that we need to see? No.

It's good Rumsfeld did this:

1) Not that the ban will save his ass from further congressional whippings, but it'll prevent more embarrassment for the country in general.

2) If he didn't ban the cameras, the shots would be more of the same - hence SOP. So who cares? We already know there are bad guys in these prisons. Next issue, please.

3) I feel the same way about the next beheading: seen one noggin get chopped off, seen 'em all.

Yep, I guess they would stop raping, beating, and murdering those they captured and put underwear on our soldiers heads instead. Don't ya hate that?

Not to change the topic, but it looks like the scape goating is coming to the top ranks- kind of refreshing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040525/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_military_3
Sanchez to Be Replaced As Iraq Commander
WASHINGTON - The top U.S. military officer in Iraq, Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, will be replaced, administration officials said Tuesday. The Pentagon also suspended Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski from her command.

Both have become symbols of lax supervision at the Abu Ghraib prison where U.S. soldiers allegedly abused Iraqi inmates.

The article makes much ado about nothing. It is Sanchez's normal rotation. The reserve BG, Karpinski was removed prior to the publicity.

and having your head hacked off slowly screaming all-the-while, having to endure your own horrific death at the hands of creatures that are nothing more than animals. oh wait, I forgot. that's ok. it is to be expected of them. but woe those holy americans :rolleyes:

Paul, I couldn't find a smiley with a gigantic thumbs-up, so this will have to dohttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...s/beerchug.gif

I can't make any sense of what you're saying. But your mesage implies:

1. an entire nation should sink to the level of a terrorist organization?

2. because there's no video of us beating to death several prisoners, their deaths weren't slow and painful? Their killers were noble?

3. they're all the same, Iraqi suspects and Al Quaeda?

4. America's longstanding efforts to establish moral leadership was a stupid waste of time?

I think you're wrong on all counts.

the fact that wild gesticulating prick still has a position in dorkya"s admin is beyond me. when he loses his job next year i'll be surprised if i he has the balls to show his face in public.