What's with the Saudis and Bin Laden?

[lendaddy]

Joe, I will admit I am unaware if the current Royal family has done anything close to resembling this statement from you "The Suad legacy is one of extreme brutality that makes Saddam look like a complete pussycat by comparison" I will gladly read any info you have on this as I will admit to missing it. Thanks.

[turbocarrera]

Lendaddy, why do you think all those Saudi Royals and Bin Laden family members were allowed to fly home on Sept 13, 2001, when the families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks were not?

[lendaddy]

I have a theory, but I suggest you ask Richard Clark, he authorized it.

[lendaddy]

Seriously, I would imagine simply because they are a powerful family and they feared for their lives based on what OBL had done. They do claim to have excommunicated him from the family.

[turbocarrera]

I'm just curious what your theory is. Clarke won't return my calls.

[lendaddy]

"I'm just curious what your theory is. Clarke won't return my calls."

lol, that was good

[lendaddy]

What is it you're implying?

[turbocarrera]

What about tens of thousands of Arabs who are not rich and powerful, they did not fear for their lives? They couldn't leave. Why only Saudi Royals and the Bin Laden family?

[lendaddy]

You answered your own question. Am I supposed to say it's wrong that money and power get you "extras" in this world? It's wrong, better?

[azasadny]

The Saudis and other Arabs hate us because of our support for Israel, plain and simple (like me)... Nothing we do will change that. On the maps I saw in Saudi Arabia, Israel is not on the map, in it's place, it says "Occupied Palestine" and that's how they think of it. What I always wonder is, why don't these Arab nations , who claim to care so much for the "poor Palestinians", take them in and give them a homestead in their own countries? The Palestinians were kicked out of Jordan, Syria, etc... way before they came to Israel, why won't these countries take them back??? The Palestinians have been refugees for a long time, why doesn't anyone ever ask this question: Why can't the Palestinians go back to their homeland? Instead we hear about how Israel mistreats them...

[turbocarrera]

Actually, i do think it's wrong that al-Qaida's bank was given a free pass. You think that was just an "extra" or a "perk" of having some dough? Come on man, who could have had more information on OBL than his bothers and sisters? O yeah, they "disowned" him. Their brother, who risked his life to free millions of Muslims from Soviet tyranny. Not bloody likely.

[turbocarrera]

Art, I agree with you 100%

Those Palestinian "refugees" are political capital in the eyes of the Arab League.

[tabs]

To the Arabs Feudalism is a novel/new idea..

Arabs don't consider themselves to be nations, but tribal groups. If U read history you will see that the Arabs living on the Peninsula were thrust directly from the 14th century into the 20th century.

I think Hugh nailed it pretty well...The USA uses it's military forces to protect it's economic interests...many times at the expense of human rights...we have been doing that through out our history. We as the citizens of the USA bear a direct responsibilty for this...after all we all benfit from these policies...remember if you don't like it ole Teddy K's cabin in Idaho is available.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by azasadny
The Saudis and other Arabs hate us because of our support for Israel

No! They hate us for our freedom! THey hate us for our way of life! I know this because GWB said so!

[island911]

They hate us because they've got nothing better to do.

[joeclarke]

I appreciate your quest for information Len...

I read a book a couple of years ago about the House of Saud and how that family came to be an influence in the middle east as long ago as the 1700's and have kept a stranglehold on the formal government of the nation since it was formed in the 1930's.

As I said, those guys cut new ground that would have made Attila himself proud in carving up pretenders or threats to their throne. That kinda history is not uncommon in the formative years of any nation, even to some extent with the USA or, more recently Iraq.

But what the Sauds have recently done is arguably worse than even Saddam could pull off in terms of abusing their own people. Saddam at least allowed Iraqis to share in the economic benefit of the country's oil wealth. The Saud royal family, on the other hand keeps it's wealth strictly within the upper crust - the average Saudi has nothing or little to show for the huge wealth of their own nation. Members of elite Saudi society appear on "worlds most wealthy" lists - Saddam and his cronies never made it there - and Iraq is number 2 in oil production after Saudi Arabia.

I love this quote that I pulled off a middle-eastern board today:

"Alhamedi Alanezi, talks about phonecams and culture in his country. "When the Saudi people finally rise up in revolt and throw out the House of Saud," he says, " it won't be for democratic reform, and it won't be for an islamic republic. It'll be about mobile phones.""

That quote epitomizes the economic abuse of the Saudi people - set aside the cultural and ethnic abuses of that government. The USA reinforces that abuse day in and day out by propping up the Saudi royal family. That quote also sets aside the ridiculous arguments that anti-american sentiment arises from brainwashing or fundamentalism.

Len, you would need to live in la-la land to think that US troops are in Saudi Arabia for "logistical reasons". Personally, I would prefer to live in a world where Americans could travel with pride without having to try to understand why everyone hates them or laughs at them for being part of an absurd culture.

Millions of people around the world have tasted our apple pie and don't much care for it Len. We gotta stop and check that we're actually following the right recipe once in a while.

[turbocarrera]

I sure wish I could find the quote from an American General who, when asked why he retired early, replied, "I was tired of being a bully for Wall Street.." or something very close to that.

I can't find it and I can't remeber his name, but I heard it, honest. Anyone else remeber that one?

[lendaddy]

"Len, you would need to live in la-la land to think that US troops are in Saudi Arabia for "logistical reasons"."

Man, we're gone or going.

First you quote this - "Alhamedi Alanezi, talks about phonecams and culture in his country. "When the Saudi people finally rise up in revolt and throw out the House of Saud," he says, " it won't be for democratic reform, and it won't be for an islamic republic. It'll be about mobile phones.""

Then this- "Millions of people around the world have tasted our apple pie and don't much care for it Len."

Which is it?

Something tells me that Sadaam didn't report his earning to Forbes Magazine Considering a good portion were illegal from the French and Russians.

I don't claim the Sauds are "nice guys", but to compare them with Sadaam, well.

[tabs]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joeclarke
[B].

Personally, I would prefer to live in a world where Americans could travel with pride without having to try to understand why everyone hates them or laughs at them for being part of an absurd culture.[B]

Being the number one power in the world and keeping that power is not a clean job, where your out to make friends...friends really are anthetical to the position.

When you became Caesar you knew there was really only one way out of office...horizontaly as in feet first.

[theFONZ]

When I was is Saudi we were there enforcing the no-fly zone along with the British and French(the French were worthless by the way). I can't speak for other services but there was almost no way our jets were there to help the Saudi Royal Family. We weren't even allowed to have a plane that did air-to-ground. All that was allowed in Saudi was air-to-air and support planes.