Ouch, and it is still smarting if you wana know? Hitting my head on a nail that is...

Typical Anti American sentiment that pervades in other parts of the world. Often led by anti American media..

You all know I am not nearly the "hawk" that some of my friends here are. We liberals get cast as ridiculous peaceniks that oppose any kind of confrontation. Lambs to the slaughter. Oblivious of the brute fact that evil exists and fighting is sometimes necessary for peace. (By the way, Jesus had some suggestions in this regard that would certainly place him in the most radical and extreme of "dove" categories, and his whole body of liberal teaching remains as the "Great Untried Social Experiment")

At any rate, some of us real-world liberals can get plenty angry, and would support some effective means of eliminating or controlling these cowardly and evil terrorists. For example, like Warren said many months ago, I would very much love to see our nation deal with these terrorists like the Israelis dealt with the terrorists who killed the athletes in Munich. One by one they were hunted down and killed in their boots.

Further, while I am grossly uncomfortable with the freedom-reducing provisions of the so-called "Patriot Act," at least as they apply to Americans, I would not assert any freedom protections for terrorists or even people in other countries. Intelligence gathering regarding non-Americans suspected of terrorism, in my view, can happen in any effective way our intelligence community wants to gather it.

Sure this means there will be mistakes made and great care needs to be exercised. But terrorists also need to feel like the one with their name on it is just around the corner. And the world needs to be sure that we consider terrorist hunting season to extend all year with no need to buy tags.

Invite them to meetings and just blow up the entire building. Publish daily scorecards. Have competitions between various paramilitary groups. All ordinance should be dipped in pig blood.

It Sounds
 

It sounds like yor a Translibber Super...it seems like you have woken up to smell the napalm in the air and realize you better get them beofre they get U. That Liberal nicities and castigation of your own governments motives and methods is dysfunctional. That it might actually undermine your countries efforts at survival, with dire consequences for your own future well being.

I love it! :) I routinely disagree with you Supe, but that's very well put. I'm all about go-get-those-dirty-scoundrels, but then, I'm also in the military. Think there's a bias there? :)


Dan

Ever wonder what would happen if the terrorists did that to an Israeli?? Hmmmm..... Would be a much different reaction than we get here. Instant retaliation.

I should warn you guys to sit down when I do this. Island once called me an "independent" and this kind of thing is probably why. Of course I didn't punch him in the nose right away, but I hope he does not start that as a rumor.

Tabs, this is not a matter of waking up and smelling the napalm, nor does it save any politician from castigation.

Two comments...

1) Tabs has come up with another visual term... TransLibber.

2) The reason the terrorists do not try that with Isreal is precisely that. The retribution will be immediate and resoulte.

That policy USED TO keep the USA out of these messes.

Before you start asking me why that policy was dropped prior to Viet Nam, know that I doubt we could resume that policy without going nuclear. The nuclear card was withdrawn from the table when other nations started getting them.

At this point in time there is no other strategic energy source in the world that is viable economically. Anybody who thinks that there is an alternative source that can supply the needs of global economy was last in line when brains were handed out. END OF STORY. We are stuck with what we got.

Super I am not talking about the political responsibilty that all leaders bear. I am talking about the ideological demagogs that perpetually suscribe the USA's motivation, and method in a nefarious fashion.

At this point in time, fossil fuels are not viable, environmentally. Anybody who thinks that the global economy can continue to increase it's use of fossil fuels at the present rate without destroying the entire planet was last in said line. END OF STORY. We are not stuck with what we got.

I think the sun's going to keep burning for a while, isn't it? Maybe it's time to go solar.

I believe the point being illustrated by a few posts is that the solution is going to be costly. Cost could be dollars, way of life, economy of the US and THE entire world, and even lives in conflict. So we pull out of the Middle East and let the sandpit melt. We encourage alternative energy sources like solar and geothermal through tax incentives. Guess who pays for that? The solution might well hurt everyone, and not just the rich. We want alternative energy? We want to be energy independent? Well, Joe Sixpack will be paying $4.50/ gallon of gas. It's not like we flip a switch and things change overnight. Perhaps the solutions are too expensive for Americans to accept. Bush cooks up the war in Iraq to take the fight overseas. For right or wrong reasons, that is what happened. Now, the question is what next? The problem is beyond Democrat vs. Republican. I believe neither side has a magic bullet. Each party wishes to preserve the current status of life, and I don't blame them for wanting that. Who is going to tell the voters that consumer prices will increase 10% per year to reduce our dependency? After all, an increase in oil prices or a decrease in supply has a huge affect on the economy. That's just the way I see it. Jurgen

I'd agree that the development of alternative energy strategies will be expensive, but I'd also assert that it needs to be done, and can be done right now. I'd guess the petroleum industry, which is a large industry in our country and is a "player" in our political process, is not supportive.

Tabs, I'm not familiar with the word "suscribe," but I do indeed have some criticisms for the current administration. I think that's patriotism and you can think what you like about it. It seems clear to me that either our "president" declared war on the basis of very poor, incomplete, unreliable and incorrect information (in which case he did not exercise the degree of care most of us put into our jobs), or his real reasons for this decision included some considerations he has not shared with us. Either way, I have a big problem with his performance.

Just because I am deadly serious about rooting out enemies of my country does not mean I am going to fall under the same hypnotic trance the rest of you seem to be suffering from.

The thing is, Wayne, Super; that while even if we could be 100% energy independent tomorow, the middle east would still be selling plenty of fuel to the other counties in this world.

It's quite simple;
OIL is a cheap form of energy.
OIL will NOT fall out of worldwide favor anytime soon.
OIL is not trying to kill us. (if we stop buying, do you think they will stop killing?)

BRAVO!

Thing is, when we start sinking the kind of money into alternative energy research that we do into oil exploration we will start to see tangible results - world wide.

Since when is oil cheap? Look at the WHOLE cost, not just the price at the pump - that's so near-sighted. The cost of lung disorders and cleanups of the coastline of Alaska and Spain, just the tip of the iceberg. The long-term costs of delaying the development of clean energy is massive, perhaps incomprehensible.

You think al-Qaida prints their own money? No, they get it from Saudi oil barons.

Oil has some advantages. Using another source, how many BTU's can you carry around in a gallon jug? Trust me when I tell you that a jug of kerosene packs some power.

But my money is still on the alternative energy sources. Some are quite workable now, and some others show some real promise. Hydrogen. Battery technology is getting better. Ultimately we need to find a sturdy enough bottle to contain the heat of fusion. Different strategies for different applications. And when it's viable, we'll sell it to those other countries.

Also inevitable is the fact that the middle east will fall from its comfortable position. Either later, when the supply runs out (and after they have gouged the world selling a shrinking necessity), or sooner. When we develop the technology that makes it obsolete.

Sure, it has been convenient and easy to harness with centuries-old technologies. But we're smarter now. It's time we acted like it.

Some pretty lazy thinking from the usual sources.

Oil is expensive, it helps create $500 billion problems. Spills damage the food supply.

Oil will fall out of favor around the world as soon as technology leads the way away from it -- hopefully American technology. About 2 dozen cities around the world have already banned IC engines from their city cores.

Oil is a form of energy that carries with it risks to human and other health. So oil *is* killing us.

Unfortunately, most alternative forms of energy also carry risks. Even electricity, while not locally polluting, produces *remote pollution* unless it's solar -- a weak source with current technology, and kinetic (like wind) which is not entirely predictable. Fission's problems are extreme -- most power plants are net energy *losers* -- and disposal of byproducts is a classic NIMBY problem. As Superman points out, fusion answers a lot of these problems, but again, nobody has found a way to manage andcontain it.

Hydrogen fuel cells aren't the instant panacea we thorught 3-4 years ago, but are evolving into viable alternatives in many applications.

I believe we'll get ourselves weaned from oil, but it will be a gradual process -- hopefully driven ultimately by consumer demand rather than legislation or necessity.

True. Unlike yourself I don't have to think too hard to understand the variables here. Lazy for sure.

btw, have you ever designed a solar panel? Have you ever experimented with reversible (PEM) type fuel cells?

Do you think you are the only one to consider the latent costs of hydrocarbon fuels? :rolleyes:

Yeah, you can try to be dismissive, but on a whole;
OIL is still a cheap form of energy.
OIL still will NOT fall out of worldwide favor anytime soon.
OIL still is not trying to kill us.

You think we're gonna believe you just 'cause you post the same thing over again? lol Lemme try..

Oil is not a cheap form of energy
Oil is already falling out of world favour
Oil is killing us (it's just not trying)
:cool: