lmao. revelations are a mile-a-minute on this thread!

Okay, here are some of the assertions I see in this thread, since my last post:

"...the left (that) is predominantly guilty of blatant revisionism and engaging in AmnesiaFest 200X ..."

"...debating tactics rather than on substantive merit. Successful liberals must have this quality to offset their flawed positions...."

Interesting, insightful, objective, rational deduction. I can see what you mean when you conclude that liberals' arguments are more emotional, subjective and not backed up by the cool, rational thought process and backup sources I see here.

I understand what you're saying Len. I was a debater too (hope you were sitting down). And yes, even good debates end in a FLURRY of minutia. And good debate topics are designed to not have a solution. But if you're suggesting that the experience does nothing to sharpen communication skills, analytical skills, research skills, etc., then you and I part ways again.

Ronin, if you can come up with just one additional clever bit of name-calling, I'll assume you would just CLOBBER an economics Ph.D. in a discussion about money policy. I'm certainly in awe of what should go down in history as "the Everstoned argument".

I repeat my earlier assumption. On this forum for example, Techweenie seems to have a fairly wide grip on information sources. Of course, you guys think he's losing all these arguments, or at least you're expected to say that's what you think. And I believe that's what you think. But from my perspective, he's fairly well-read and can back up his assertions with sources and cites. Those liberal idiots who have or are pursuing liberal arts degrees, some of them can acquit themselves nicely in a discussion. But then, I'm probably talking to a brick wall. My opinion. I've been around these Western Washingtonians for a while now, and their knowledge of current affairs is comparatively excellent. Let's put it another way. I moved here from Spokane. Go to very very conservative) Spokane today, June 23, 2004, and ask someone on the street about Clinton's book. Chances are they'll look at you like you're from Outer Space.

namecalling? I believe I did no such thing. if you're referring to the Everstoned comment, well then so sorry. as for the comment on the insane asylum, that was what is known as an ANALOGY. the point was that it would be totally useless to address any class of students there, as they would not be receptive to any opposing viewpoints no matter how factual, well-thought-out, intelligent, or otherwise. hate to say it, but intellectual masturbation is not my strong suit (I know what you're thinking: "so what are you doing on this board!?" :D )

as for the economics Ph.D., the fact that one posesses a degree of any type does not indicate in any way, shape, or form that one actually knows of what one speaks. this is brought about by application of said knowledge in practice. how many economics Ph.D.s have I seen (once again cocooned by the protective walls of Fantasyland - better known as academia) that staunchly believe Keynesian economics as a workable model and that the depression was caused by the stock market crash :rolleyes:

now what I find interesting is how you always seem to have the need to match me up with others in academia. are you not educated and intelligent enough (as even you yourself stated on another thread) to discuss/debate these issues with me? I suppose I should take it as a compliment that you see the need to match me up with what you perceive to be some big hitters. thanks SmileWavy

tell ya what. I know you're busy this weekend with other engagements (if I remember correctly) and I'm planning on doing the St Helens run, but should the opportunity arise someday, I'm inviting you to a brew as we debate the world's troubles from a barstool, or better yet, from a nice restaurant patio. I'm buying :D

There's a lot of right wing sputtering, flailing and spinning going on here, but the book is selling like hotcakes in places where people actually buy books.

Buyers will read it and draw their own conclusions, just the same way they will flock to "Fahrenheit 911" and draw their own conclusions.

Why is that all so frightening to some?

That doesn't scare me...

What scares me is Supe and Ronin in a bar, drinking and discussing.....

singpilot: "At this moment, there are over 700 autgraphed copies of Clinton's book offered for sale at a premium markup on eBay."

I suppose this is an example of GWB "fuzzy math."

There are 121 signed copies of the book on eBay at the moment.

yeah, the other 579 auctions already closed with no sales :p :D

lmao!! dunno, never met the man. could get ugly. I mean, we might actually agree on something :D

Techie!

You are amazing!

I suspect the book IS selling like crazy! Only 121 left????

I'd better get my Ralph Nader Visa card out quick-like.

Yeah, but the lack of clearly defined ideology is one of the key distinctions between the straight and narrow conservative view and the everything for everyone liberal view.

In my opinion, this is to some extent related to level of education - basically I agree with the concept articulated by who knows who, but they were probably famous - "the more you learn, the less you know".

I genuinely believe that the more information you have and the more you think about an issue, the harder any decision about it becomes - black and white becomes a thousand shades of grey.

definitely agree with you there. it does get frustrating at times with some of the younger people with whom I work, as they are wont to jump to conclusions thinking that they have it all under control when nothing could be further from the truth

interesting quote. my own version for years was "the more I know, the more I realize how much I don't know!"

I like the one that goes something along the lines of:

"When I was 18 I thought I knew everything and my father was an idiot. By the time I was 21 I was surprised at how much he had learned"

I resemble that remark :D

hopefully my daughter will catch on soon

Wow Ronin, you sound just like Sean Hannity. I wonder why conservatives have such a despise for academia and higher education. You should go visit a research lab in physics, or chemistry. Maybe you would learn that some jobs actually do require a long training, and a large amount of theoretical knowledge that is typically acquired during a phD cursus. I am getting tired of this cliche that describes conservatives as the money earning hard working connected to the real world people, and the liberals as the tax consumers unproductive elements who live in fantasyland. The way I see it, conservatives are the ones who want to lower the average education level, and who would rather send their kids to war for some phony oil based reason, rather than see them earn a higher education degree in a field that could make them able to make a difference. But it takes six months to make a soldier, and 10 years to make a researcher in `Academia Fantasyland`.
But of course, for voicing an opinion such as yours, one must assume that you have already spent a fair amount of time in said academia, hence your fair and sound judgement.

Aurel

"I am getting tired of this cliche that describes conservatives as the money earning hard working connected to the real world people, and the liberals as the tax consumers unproductive elements who live in fantasyland."

Hit a little too close to home:) AIGF

Hey, I just thought folks wanted to read about how to ruin a good stogie...

Mein Kampf?? What gives? Is that the best title he could come up with? He really hasn't had that interesting of a life, compared to many in the public eye. In the big picture, his life has been nothing more than one scandalous event after another. He really didn't do anything considerably monumental to speak of...

I don't know. He never really impressed me much, and still doesn't.:p

ronin: "yeah, the other 579 auctions already closed with no sales"

Actually, you might find it illuminating to search eBay "completed items" and see just how many signed copies have sold and at what price.

You might be surprised.

I know it really gripes a lot of fact-allergic conservatives here that Clinton is so respected. And that makes me smile.

:-)

SPOILER :D. No need to read it now.

Techie!

We do our best to keep you entertained.

Clinton kept me entertained right thru the impeachment.