Aren't you sick of companies messing with you?

[motion]

I am so damn tired of trying to get incorrect charges reversed, arguing with Sprint over my cell phone bill, trying to clear wrong information from my credit report, not getting screwed on interest rates on home loans, arguing about fees owed after accounts are closed, etc., etc., etc., etc. Its practically a full time job trying not to get screwed. They tell you they'll credit your account, then they never do. I write everything down and then they deny it. Its a no win situation. Everyone is just so friggin greedy out there.

Was it always this way? Did the Internet bring it all on? What's a person to do? Just let everyone charge what ever they want to your credit card or account, then send you to collections and ruin your credit when you don't pay it?

Our society has just gotten to be so complex. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better to live in a $40k house in Montana and drive a 30 year old pickup truck. At least I wouldn't have someone trying to fu$k me every time I turn around.

I feel sorry for my kid when he grows up... I'm sure it's only going to get worse.

/rant

[JavaBrewer]

I'm a SDSU alum, you left out getting bent over by College Admissions. At graduation time SDSU's computer suddenly decided I didn't complete required CS courses. It took me weeks of standing in lines, talking to boneheaded & stubborn admissions people, obtaining signed professor statements with photocopies of grade books, to get the situation resolved. I even had my printed grade reports as proof I took the classes - still a GIGANTIC PITA. And to top it all off I still had to pay the change fee @ $20 class.

Don't get me started with Financial Aid.

[cowtown]

WARNING - RANT AHEAD

You said it motion.

The thing that OUTRAGES me is that it's always your burden (as the customer) to get THEIR screwups straightened out.

I've got an ETrade brokerage account. I order a box of checks, which they promptly send to an address I had not lived at for FIVE YEARS. A vagrant steals the checks and buys himself a car for $7500. Then he goes on a checkwriting spree, until he's caught red-handed, writing my checks, with 20 other people's checks in his pocket, and a forged ID in my name. To jail he goes, on his third strike, no less.

See, he's being watched, because he just got out of jail 5 weeks ago. And sure enough, even though he's "served his time," he hasn't been rehabilitated.

Bottom line, I'm out $8500 until I PROVE THAT I'M NOT THE HOMELESS EX-CON GUY WRITING CHECKS AND SERVING TIME IN PRISON.

ETrade Rep: "I need this notarized. You need to send that police report. You need to wait up to 10 weeks while we investigate."

Meanwhile, they start selling mutual funds out of my account to cover the deficit, even though the rep assured me they woudn't. So now there are penalties to pay.

I'm pulling my money out as soon as it's settled and paying down the house.

Think of that next time you look at ETrade.

[Superman]

I hope you're not suggesting we regulate the behavior of businesses. There are at least a couple of problems with that. First, we might have to use "gubmint" to do that. Second, if we start telling corporations to play by some rules, then besides the question of how do we enforce those rules, we potentially limit the volume of profits those companies can make to distribute to stockholders.

So you see, your feelings are entirely unpatriotic. Are you a terrorist?

[on-ramp]

now you know why some want to fly planes into buildings.. this is corporate terrorism. as tax paying citizens, why does it feel like we always get screwed in some way or another whilie companies bank trillions of dollars in their corporate bank accounts.

somebody get me my medicine please

[cowtown]

Originally posted by Superman
I hope you're not suggesting we regulate the behavior of businesses.

Well, considering that the banking/investment sector is the most tightly regulated out there, I can't say that it's all that effective.

Was anyone arguing about regulation? Why are you interrupting a good rant thread?

EDIT - OK, that sounded flippant. What I'm saying is that I'm regulating business in the capitalist way - by voting with my feet. The government will never hurt ETrade as much as Accountholders who close their accounts (and complain to 100 of their closest friends) will.

[cowtown]

Originally posted by on-ramp
now you know why some want to fly planes into buildings.. this is corporate terrorism. as tax paying citizens, why does it feel like we always get screwed in some way or another whilie companies bank trillions of dollars in their corporate bank accounts.

somebody get me my medicine please

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by cowtown

yeah, you can roll your eyes all you want, but you know it's true. i see people getting f$cked every day, like motion explained.

i had a situation a few years back where mediaone cable overcharged me $300 over a period of 2 years. i spent 2 months trying to gather documentation, endless phone calls, and lawsuit threats to get them to give me my money back. they finally did b/c i was persistent and made out in the end. this is not an isolated case , though, i'm sure it happens often. these "over-charging mistakes", as they call them, amount to billions of dollars. and why is it that they NEVER under-charge you? can you explain that? if it's a "computer error", it should go both ways.

[motion]

The whole thing reminds me of trying to argue with any attorney over his bill.

You can't.

He knows you're fu$ked.

They can do anything they want, yet we are absolutely helpless to do anything in return to them.

Just like its impossible to pursue someone who files a frivolous lawsuit against you.

There needs to be a credit rating for all companies. When Sprint adds $200 to my phone bill, then I get pissed and they want to charge me a $175 early termination fee, I should be able to go to a website, file a complaint, which affects there rating. There rating would somehow affect there ability to get free government handouts or something like that.

There need to be repurcussions for screwing with people in society.

[turbo6bar]

Life isn't fair.

[Zeke]

I don't think a 40K house in MT with a 30 year old truck in the drive will solve all your problems. We all have to deal with the crap from wherever we are. I try to keep it simple as possible. The less credit cards you have, etc. the less to go wrong.

The real blame is the minimun wage front liners at every company we deal with. I've had so much grief in my business and personal financial dealings that I'm completely disenfranchised.

I have one bank account and only one with a bank that will cash checks from any source as long as I have the funds to cover. Since I know the source of the checks, I'm safe. There was a time when I would only send Pelican MO's. But, they've proven themselves to be reliable with the credit charges.

At one point, I would only deal with a bank that held their own home loans and I could walk in and pay cash. This same bank does that, but the interest is a little high. I'll bet I made 24 consecutive house payments in cash at the window when they had my loan. It feels good to walk away with a hand written and stamped receipt.

This is how it should be.

As far as credit reports are concerned, screw it. If my credit score isn't 700 something, I really don't give a *****. The reason is that if I need credit that bad, I don't need what I'm buying. So far, that hasn't worked, because everything I want, they will sell me and at bottom interest rates where that is negotiable.

OTOH, I work for people and have to make them happy with reliablity and accuracy everyday. Sometimes things don't go perfectly, either due to my error, or someone that I depend on. However, I am so far ahead of the game in terms of what we get on the average for service, that if and when I get a complaint, I just tell them I'm sorry about it and please go somewhere else. I know what they're in for. Poetic justice at it's best.

A cabinet maker that I used on occasion was a lot like you, Richard. And he told me more than once that, "People are no damn good." His work was, though. So he treated everyone pretty much the way they deserved to be treated because he could. In other words, if you were rude to him, he'd just hang up or walk off. I've become his disciple.

[Moneyguy1]

Ummm...Fellas...

EVERY situation you are describing can be summed up in one word:

Disconnect.

Supe, I hate to disagree, but every day we read about mergers, making large companies larger and removing the desire to satisfy the customer. If you have a small company, you are concerned about your reputation and word-of-mouth. The larger you get, the less you care about individual problems, they are lost in the everyday ground clutter.

Case in point: My wife has a relatively expensive Kitchenaid mixer. After three years, it shatters a nylon (yep, nylon) worm gear. I contact Kitchenaid, they tell me how disappointed they are, and how perfect their design is, and give me the names of three companies where I can buy a replacement. I have had smaller companies where a problem has arisen and they have bent over backwards to help rectify the situation.

The larger the organization, whether it be a corporation or a government, the less your individual problems matter.

[techweenie]

It really was much worse 20 years ago when people who interfaced with the public were so intimidated by computers that they just froze up when you told them something in their database was incorrect.

As for the ETrade story, that's awful, motion.

There are some similar stories at http://www.paypalsucks.com

Technology -- it's almost always 2 steps forward, one step back.

[araine901]

I had a problem with Paypal as well. I agree, the best way to deal with it is to swich service providers. It is hard to know what companies will or will not screw you. It is like finding a mechanic, if you dont have some good ol word of mouth it is easy to get the shaft.

[nostatic]

why is it the last time I called Verizon, they said "please hold and you will be assisted by the next available agent. Please have your account number handy, and indicate if you have a purty mouth."

[rammstein]

My last job was working as a systems engineer for a major Customer Car billing/ Customer Service company. We did work for Sprint PCS. I have seen how things work from behind the scenes. Personally, I don't think for a minute that most overcharges and mistakes are accidental at all. Lets say you cancel your account, and your last day is May 20. It is typical for them to go ahead and "cancel it in their SYSTEM (this is supposed to mystify you)" on the 21st, thus billing you for one extra day. Their accounting policy, furthermore, is to not issue refunds under a certain amount. So essentially, they have rules saying they can steal 75 cents from everyone, and you can't stop them. Obviously you could, but for what gain? This is just one of the many scams they pull.

Don't ever, ever sign up for automated account deductions (autopay). This is like going down to the pier nude and bending over.

I think wireless billing is probably the biggest racket (spelling?) going. Furthermore, have fun when you call customer service. Forget the "minimum wage" problem. Now, most call centers are being moved to India. Enjoy trying to explain things with the added thrill of a language barrier.

I got overcharged every month for the first 6 months of my service with AT&T wireless (once by $700!). Thing is, I knew what to do and actually knew the screens the rep was looking at. Eventually, the rep you call will see, in the account remarks section, that you have been all over their junk for every month, and you'll get satisfaction.

I would LOVE to see a successful class action suit against them all. They're all horrible. I've had Sprint, AT&T, Verizon and Cinci Bell. They ALL routinely have "errors" that any software tester could have forseen and solved from a mile away. Its no accident.

[84porsche]

As far as cell phones are concerned, I have had many headaches dealing with all the brands from Cingular to Nextel to even Verizon. But over the past year, Verizon has gone the extra mile for me as a customer and I would be happy to refer them to someone.

As far as your other accounts, keep records of everything and document everything and pay attention to detail. It is in my nature to keep an eye on all my finances (accounting grad) but just be persistent. You can get things done the right way but you have to play the game of business.

Some businesses count on you as the consumer not paying attention. By the time you have a chance to correct these errors it may be too late. Their is a good article in yesterday's business section of the OC Register about business protections and fraud in the workplace. Just be preventative in your actions and don't let some businesses get the drop on you. I spent a good portion of the first several months of employment cleaning up billing errors some in our companies' favor and others' not.

Many places do not have the money or the resources to make sure that you as the consumer/customer is always happy unless regualtions require it and in today's society even all the regs in the world won't be enough because in time a loophole will exist.

[84porsche]

Noah,

I am sorry about your problems with Verizon. Keep after them. As I said, my luck has been different but good luck with that issue.

As far as dealing with collection agencies. Tell them that the company hiring them is in error and let them send all the lawyers. They only threaten and then eventually drop the issue. At work, I had 10 different collection agencies call for the same amount of money and everyone I stood on principle and eventually each one told the company that hired them to drop it.

[techweenie]

There's a minor movement building to 'fight back' at the way monopolies ( like cable companies and dredit rating companies) routinely disrespect our time.

Here's a peek at some of the thinking behind it:

----------------------
Shouldn't We Be Able To Charge Companies For Our Lost Time?

by Jamie Court

The following commentary was broadcast on Marketplace on National Public Radio on Wednesday, June 16, 2004.

------------------
DAVID BROWN, anchor: You sure can make money with a click of a button. Credit card companies do it all the time. Late bill? Click. Ouch. But you know, fingers can be button-happy, and businesses can make mistakes. And who's left sorting it all out? Well, commentator Jamie Court says it's time consumers figured out how to turn the tables.

JAMIE COURT: If time is money, why are corporations the only ones who charge for wasting it? When our bills are late, banks, credit card companies and insurers charge us money. But no matter how much of our time it takes to fix their mistakes, we never get paid. If you make $54,000 per year, you hand over $27 for every hour you spend doing the lost paperwork for your refund. If your annual pay is $110,000, the two hours you wasted at home because the cable company guy came late cost you $110.

So what would happen if we turned the tables? Far fewer mistakes and much less waiting, that's what. Customer service satisfaction levels would rise from their current cellar-dweller ratings. Once the line is drawn, corporations are likely to avoid it, just like they do the $11,000 fine for breaking the Do Not Call line. HMOs made the same adjustment. After California let patients collect for delays in their treatment, HMOs started paying for care in legitimate cases rather than haggle over the need for that care and then face the penalty.

Consider this solution: You could charge for your time only after a gross misuse of it. Say, if you have to spend more than two hours to fix a billing error and the resulting spot on your credit report. Government would establish guidelines, you would have to provide documentation: letters, phone bills, postmarks. And then you could collect via mail or small claims court in contested claims.

This is not pie in the sky. I mean, just a few years ago, who would have imagined that every errant telemarketing call would cost the offending company the price of a Hyundai? Who knows, in another decade, maybe 20 minutes in voice mail hell will be worth at least a burger and fries. In Los Angeles, this is Jamie Court for MARKETPLACE.

BROWN: Consumer activist Jamie Court is the author of "Corporateering."