Common sense? Here's a dose of modern medical reality. CP is common. Most experts agree that some catastrophic brain insult happens during a pregnancy long before labor that damages the fetus. Guess what. When labor finally ensues, the brain damaged fetus displays a heart rate pattern that looks really bad. That is the heart tracing that is paraded in front of the jury.

The problem is it's the CP that causes the bad heart tracing, not the other way around. The 10% figure is an unscientific wild assed guess to keep the lawyers in the game. Edwards knows the game. He's a player.

Cheney strikes me as a "true believer" whose primary motivation is a policy with which I don't agree. I don't see Cheney as a corrupt leader, just a zealot.

You want to make a case for the impeachment of GWB? I'm all ears. I personally disagree with the whole Iraqi debacle.

I've got no dog in this fight. I'll stand by my previous evaluation of Mr. Edwards.

I will take the criticism with a grain of salt, but your comprehension skills seem to be devoid of thinking that disagrees with your preconceived notions...Tell me, what makes you think Spankee is a "teenager"?...Because he told you so?

Here's the most likely scenario: A major blood vessel to the brain has a spasm, depriving the fetal brain of oxygen. Three months later labor begins. Everything goes well for a while until the damaged fetus can no longer withstand the normal stress of labor. The fetal heart rate starts to drop. A Cesarean is performed. The baby has cerebral palsy.

Mom and dad have a lifetime commitment caring for a badly disabled child. Malpractice attorney has bills to pay. "Idiot doctor" has a paid up malpractice insurance policy.

The scenario I just described is the one supported by all current medical literature. Everyone seems to understand that except the jury.

So what about my case where I had a girl who's normal brain was seriously deprived of oxygen due to over an hour going by from the time she went into fetal distress to the time the c-section could finally be performed?

Are you arguing that there is no information that can be gained from a fetal heart monitor? I know for a fact that if not for that technology and a c-section I would have a dead or invalid daughter today.

I think it was quite telling that at the time the **** hit the fan I was no longer allowed to take pictures or video of what was going on. I was informed it was for legal reasons of course. God forbid I have my own record of the events that occured if it ever had to go to court.

Thank god everthing worked out OK in my daughter's case but I guarantee you that I would have had an ambulance chaser enacting my vengance if things had turned out otherwise.

To display the typical moronic nature of HMO logic, its decision to not opt for a c-section ended up turning a simple < $10K birth into an almost $30K affair.

So doctors are damned if they do and damned if they don't I can not name a single doctor that likes being part of an HMO. They are forced to however if they wish to make a descent living. The cost of healthcare has gone through the roof. In part due to crazy litigation against doctors and pharmaceuticals.

HMO's where designed to reduce the cost to you the consumer. They also reduce the flexibility a doctor has in the care given.

Doctors are also criticized for the let's slice them mentality. I have a 16 month old son and while my wife was pregnant I read all about the experts saying doctors performed TOO MANY c-sections.

My son was born via c-section by the way.

I am sorry your daughter / wife had a rough delivery I hope it turned out for the better. What would have happened if you delivered at home?

I would personally look at it as the doctor helped you save your daughter. This year alone in Mexico there have two women that c-sectioned themselves. Think maybe they should sue the doctors or the government because a doctor wasn't there and waiting.

Giving birth is a very old occurrence and it is not an exact science there is a lot of risk.

Our children (mine at least) are the most important thing in the world to me. He is the only thing I would kill for.

Tell me 350 do you believe in abortion? Do you believe in partial birth abortion? Do you believe a person that murders a pregnant woman should be charged with a double murder?

I do not wish to make abortion illegal as I know it will continue to occur and I want it to be a safe procedure but how anyone could do it is beyond me. Partial Birth is nothing more murder.

Point being is that **** happens. People make mistakes. 350 I don't know what you do to earn your living but I assume you want to make as much as possible and I am sure you make your share of mistakes. We all do. Granted a doctors mistake has potential to be more lasting.

What happens if you pull out in front of someone and cripple one of the passengers. Think they should sue you for $25 million dollars. You goofed. Do you think they should have the power to ruin you and your family for a simple mistake.

Just as I predicted, you cowardly piece of ****. I finally back off asking for your address for a visit and now you feel all safe to start sounding like a tough guy again. I must have made a credible impression on you since I NEVER received a PM with your address and you were too scared to believe I was a kid posting from Nevada.

Fact: Fetal heart monitoring has had no effect on the rate of brain damage in newborns.

Fact: The vast majority of newborns who had poor fetal heart tracings come out completely OK.

Fact: Pre-existing brain damage will cause a poor fetal heart tracing when the damaged fetus experiences the normal stress of labor. It is rare that a poor fetal tracing leads to brain damage.

Fact: The rate of cerebral palsy in elective scheduled Cesarean deliveries is the same as the rate in infants born vaginally.

I'm glad your daughter is OK. If she had problems as a neonate, it is extremely unlikely that it was caused by the "idiot doctor".

You know, candidly, I have not been swept off my feet by any democratic presidential nominee for the past several years. The current ticket, while not terribly disappointing, leaves me wondering why we cannot come up with some real leaders. Heck, there must be something like 300 million people here now. I'd guess there are better potential candidates out there.

but having said that, it is my very strong belief that Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney represent the greatest danger to the world right now. Terrorists do not present as much danger. "Frightening" is WAY too soft a word to describe how I feel about the possibility that those two men might still be running my country in February.

Supe, No offense to you, but that's the biggest buch of hogwash that anyone has posted here in a long time.

Speaking of cowardly pieces of shiit, sorry to see that you are still here.

Hey Moses, Just want to put your objectivity in this discussion to a little test: Has there ever been a case of medical malpractice with a jury award that you felt was justified?

Ever? That you are aware of the details of? Please post the case, and I will back off. You are insinuating a scenario where it is easy for a slick lawyer to bamboozle a jury into awarding millions of dollars to people who have not been wronged by the medical profession.

BULL*****, Mr.! :mad:

I can give plenty of examples of cases of major "learning on the job" type f**k-ups by M.D.s that were NOT actionable but should have been, for a variety of reasons.

I just want anyone here as an observer to understand that because Moses is an M.D., (I guess, right?), this does not make him an authority on medical malpractice. Just the opposite, most likely. I have both trial lawyers and M.D.s in my immediate family, my younger sister is at the pinacle of her profession, (Mayo clinic fellowship/pathologist), her legal knowledge wouldn't fill a f**king microscope slide.

Do I sound pissed? Goddamn right I am. I am one of the people that has been f**ked good and permanently by incompetent M.D.s, (many years ago), the picture of easy lawsuits against them is BS, period/end of story.

Have to go to work now, (at my neither legal or medical profession job). :cool:

Absolutely! Years ago I did side work for the California Board of Medical Quality Assurance. After a doctor loses a malpractice case, I would review the case to determine if punitive action was necessary as well as the malpractice judgement. I saw a lot of legitimate malpractice cases.

Most legitimate malpractice involved doctors practising outside their expertise, failure to diagnose, or impaired physicians. I have said it before; malpractice is an essential element that keeps doctors "on their game."

Here's the problem. Remember the billion dollar breast implant class action suit that bankrupted a large company? Turns out it was crap. All crap. Proven crap. Sorry, no refund.

How about the local doc who saw a woman for a check up and recommended a routine mammogram. He even gave the woman a signed order for the test with directions to the mammogram facility. Two years later, she shows up with a lump in her breast. She never got the mammogram. She was "too busy". She sued the doctor who ordered the mammogram because he didn't call her periodically to make sure she went for her test. She won.

See, so there's malpractice and there is crap. The cerebral palsy -birth injury connection is crap.

Spankee, you assured me that you would come after me after you got on your bat-phone and called the Fuked-up Bureaucratic Idiots to trace my IP...But, you are a liar, so it didn't come to fruition.

Let's say this is the final straw and your shoe-phone rings you with my address...I want you to know that if you knock on my door, or come anywhere near me you will wish you just shut your mouth when you had the chance.

This is your chance, as per your request I will make it a point to stay logged on long enough for you to pinpoint my location.

I bet Wanker is under his official FBI surplus cone of silence and is tracing you right now.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1089245907.jpg

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Mark, that's my hogwash you're poking at there. If (and sadly I expect this) those psychopaths get re-elected, I think they're going to pursue an agenda that makes the first four years look like Mother Theresa.

I think bin Laden may show up, captured, in September. I think WMD's will be produced in October, located in Syria, and another war will need to be declared. That will be the situation when we cast our ballots. Right after that, the rest of this nation's ecological regulations will go down in flames, perhaps the National Labor Relations Act, probably Social Security, etc. I think these guys will undo what our previous leaders have worked so hard to establish during the past 200 years.

I think gasoline will top $3 per gallon, easily, by 2008. I think we've had plenty of nasty political leaders all along, but I think they've been measured and careful. I don't think Dubya has any concern about that. There is no question in my mind that the candidate most favored by Osama bin Laden, by far, is George W. Bush.

I think Dubya wants to be sure he's in the record books, and this will do that trick.

Jim, the sky is falling.

I have no idea how you are a Christian...You vote for anti-Christs, big-eugenics and Sodom and Gamorrha...You vote for the Romans and a party that sounds like the Pharisees, yelling "CRUCIFY!" at anything Christian...the Democrat party perpetrates all the evil they blame the Republicans of.

You are through the looking glass Alice...You should know better than to vote for pathological liars, trial lawyers, gold-diggers, war-criminals, pro-baby murderers and Sodomites.

Satan enters the church through liberalism, look what liberalism has done to the Catholics...it is a travesty, worse, a heresy.

AND TO THINK...Mul, I once agreed with your earlier posts? But this rant??? Uh, since I can't in any good concience vote for Kerry/Heinz? Guess I'll sit this one out...

Oh relax...So my Christianity shows a little, time and again..probably 0.05% of my posts. (I in no way retract my rant, it is absolutely true and heart-felt)

I suppose you stumbled on "anti-christs"...By this I meant those who attack and condemn, even persecute, Christians.

Personally I think the Dr's are being victimized. I have read in many places that Dr's have to work within the guidelines of the HMO and what that Dr knows the HMO will allow and what it won't. Insurance companies DO NOT pay for everything you need and have no intention of doing so. My wife has a real problem with all the drug companies doing so much advertising for their new drugs. Her experience with that was that there was a pain medication she wanted for her back problems (years ago I guess) that when she asked her Dr about it the response was that her insurance would not cover that. It really twisted her panties up.

Anyway, I think we hold Dr's a bit accountable for things that aren't truly their fault. But at the same time they are for a time at least responsible for someone's life and can have an effect on someone's entire life much more than most other service providers. That fact I think qualifies them for a higher level of accountability but I still think we should be able to hold the Insurance companies responsible for car that is refused when the medical staff recommends it as genuine treatment.

The current administration is of course against holding insurance companies responsible for the care they finance for us. It takes the decision for treatments away from the DR and into the bean counter's hands. That seems a bit misplaced to me.

Mull:

Just send me your address you coward. I went to the movies tonight to see The Alamo. **** your IP address, just send the address you Chicken ****. We don't need the FBI--just man to man. Send me the address. In a PM. You won't--ie. Chicken****---ChickenHawk--same thing.

And Kurt--**** you too. Glad you missed me.

Hey Wanker911, why don't you give us a description what you're planning for Mul. That'd be cool.

You did not read this, Mul:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=155372

Interesting how every religious zealot reguardless of stripe sounds just like every other religious zealot, isn't it?

If God took seriously everything done in His name, God Himself would become an athiest.

The american taliban make up a big chunk of right wing america.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1089261361.jpg

Explain the similarities for me would you, please?...

Al Qaeda is on the run, many heads are in jail, Saddam is facing justice...And Bush is the Taliban?....lol

Painting Bush with the brush of Islam is just an attempt to hide the reality that Islamofascism never had a better friend than the Democrat party...You do know Fahrenheit 9-11 is being used as Islamofascist recruiting don't you?

So, when was the last time a Christian used one of their children, strapped with a bomb, as an evangelical tool?...Ya, them crazy Christians handing out Bible's, building Habitat's for Humanity, and loving the forgotten are just like "every other religious zealot."

pfff

WRONG. HMOs were designed to turn a profit, at yours and your doctor's expense.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that most HMO's lick ball sweat. The good thing is no one is forced to have them, and they are still OK 90% of the time. Lest we forget, who gave us HMO's? Oh yea, Teddy Kennedy:)

Maybe you should read this...

Psalms 139:13-14 - “For you formed my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to you, For I am fearfully and wonderfully made.”

Proverbs 14:12 - 'There is a way which seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."

Genesis 1:27 - "God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them."


But big-abortion knows better right?...The capitalist pigs of eugenics trump the Lord, everyone's God.


Ephesians 6:12 - "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."

Moses, this friends baby had the cord wrapped around its neck. Fetal monitor show problems and the nurse and doctor refused to do anything saying it was normal. Six hours later baby is born dead. Baby is revived and is brain damaged big time. This Dr has had 16 cases of malpratice settled out of court.
I think each case needs to be looked at for its own merit. I agree that suits are out of control but then there are cases that warnant the lawsuit.
Thats where a good lawyer like Edwards is worth his weight in Gold.
Geoff

Are there scumbag lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits? Of course, but I haven't seen any evidence that Edwards was one of them. The right wing is in desparation mode about now, though, so expect slime by the boatload w/ Mullholland carrying water for the man here on Pelican. :rolleyes:

Mul:

They will know we are Christians by our love, by what we say and do, our acts of kindness will demonstrate our love for Jesus.

Sorry, you can't pass that test. Need a refresher Bible class and a bar of mouth soap for Vacation Bible School--your friends here signed you up.

Hear that?










Silence before the storm.

First I voted for the 87 billion, then I voted against it...First I married 25 million, then I married 1 billion dollars.

Said the Christian hater.

Hey, how did you photoshop the word "whoop" on that can?