Wayne's World: Thoughts on gas prices...

[speeder]

Unfortunately, people will continue to buy huge SUVs until the goofy tax laws change that effectively subsidize 1/2 their cost to virtually any self-employed person. It is pure frikkin' bananas. Absolute, bald-faced corporate welfare, (govt. propping up the auto companies and oil companies), everyone knows it but plays along. I am working in an affluent area this week, (Calabasas), seemingly every other vehicle on the road is a new Suburban or equivalent w/ one person in it. Insanity. And Marines are dying for this every day??

[Moneyguy1]

I agree.

Here in the Southwest, people are spread out all over and the pickup/SUV is king. People clamor for more roads, and vote down any idea of mass transit. Gas here is usually a bit higher than the national average and folks park their fat butts(usually one person per vehicle) in their 5,000 pound diesels and crowd streets that are already six lanes wide. In some northeastern cities, inner areas are now being revitalized and "gentrified" as a result of increasing travel time and associated costs. On the left coast, with their "horse properties of 1 to 5 acres 30 miles or more from City centers, the problem will be a bit more difficult to solve.

I would, in a heartbeat, drive an electric car. The abundant sunshine out here means that I could, with no cost to the fossil fuel supply charge the sucker up with roof mounted solar panels. It can be done, but it would take the same committment as was shown in the "smoking is evil and only self destructive slobs do it" program. Remember when "four out of five Doctors recommend Camels" Look at old copies of "Life" magazine from the fifties and sixties and see the number of ads for cigarettes touted by professional, doctors and the like. Not so long ago in absolute terms, less than a half a century. It takes a while to change a society's opinions. We need to strat yesterday.

I believe that the oil/gas industry as well as the automobile manufacturers have led us down this dependency path and are still doing it.

I also believe that our federal government has done little to end this, despite the EPA which only puts band aids on bullet wounds. The answer, according to the White House is digging in Alaska? and how long will that supply last? Where is the equivalent of a Manhattan Project do develop an alternaive to the internal combustion engine? Where is the imagination?

Not too long ago, on TV they had a challenge between an electric sports car and a Dodge Viper. The electric car won the sprint. Viper would have caught it over a longer distance, but that little electric car SMOKED through the traps!! Built by a small private company. What could a concerted effort come up with if the funds and encouragement were there?

Wayne, I humbly add my rant to yours.

[turbo6bar]

Kill the subsidy on 7000 lb vehicles. I drive a Dodge 2500 diesel, and even if the tax breaks weren't there, I'd still drive it. I have a legitimate use for the vehicle for business purposes (lots of towing and hauling). It gets the same mileage as the 911SC. I'm not in favor of eliminating choices, but have no issues with removing incentives.

One area that needs attention is housing. You'd be surprised at the crap that goes into new homes based on cost savings alone. Builders will use crappy blackboard sheathing with virtually no R-factor vs. the foam board which has much better insulating factor.

I do agree the oil industry and automakers are partially responsible for the problems, but we are equally responsible. They wouldn't build SUVs if we didn't buy them. Our old Porsches aren't very fuel efficient, either, so watch what you preach.

Most of all, I'd favor programs that educated consumers. Promote conservation and responsible consumerism(is that a word?). Get rid of silly, backwards incentives. I recall one electric company gives a $100 rebate if you install an electric-powered water heater. That's stupid, when natural gas is more efficient and cheaper.

I feel SUVs are an undeserved scapegoat for the energy debate. If you're going to harp on efficiency, there are other more wasteful victims (small engines, old ladies that leave on every light in the house, huge water fountain at the local business complex, in general, any wasteful activity). If you want to be green, look at the big picture.
jürgen

[on-ramp]

there is not an infinite supply of oil in the world...one day, perhaps in 20-30 years, it will all be used up and then we're in trouble.

we need alternate forms of energy now before this crisis crops up.

[cmccuist]

I commute 130 miles a day round trip. I drive a Honda CRX that gets 40-45 miles per gallon depending on the AC usage. It has 331,000 miles on it. When I dream about cities of the future I alway envision sleek, bullet-type trains that noiselessly glide into a terminal. Everyone folds up their newspaper or marks their place in whatever book they're reading and heads on out the door.

I would greatly prefer riding a train to work than risking my life here in south Texas dodging the Escalades, pickups and Hummers. Until someone comes up with mass transit that doesn't lose money, I don't see it happening. We just put in a joke of a rail system here in Houston. Cost billions and actually took up one lane of traffic!! WTF?!?

As far as marines dying for oil - we get about 20% of our oil from the middle east. The rest is from the Americas. Drilling in ANWAR would get us off the middle east nipple, but there are too many dumb animals preventing that plan. Also, some elk would have to graze elsewhere.

Craig

[Planter91C2]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
2nd in a series of daily rantings by Wayne:



I've always been an advocate of higher gas prices. .


-Wayne

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

[RickM]

Good topic to discuss. Death of the SUV? I don't know. Seems all the Japanese manufacturers are coming out with a new generation of large SUVs. But smaller ones are gaining ground.

Bush announced funding for Hydrogen reasearch last year but I've never heard anything after that. Last week a news show said that a possible alternate source of energy is some type of Methane (the name escapes me now) that is disolved in the icy waters near Alaska. According to the reporter, if we could refine this product from the water we would have enough energy potential for the next 4000 years. Interesting stuff.

I don't think electric cars are the answer and hybrids are a stepping stone. Heck a VW TD gets better gas mileage than some of the hybrid offerings.

[JavaBrewer]

Here in San Diego I've heard that the Coaster (commuter train linking North County w/ San Diego) is a loss leader; something like $30/rider is subsidized. System has been in place for years. Mass transit polls for always score big, like 70% approval here in S.D., but then ask how many will actually use it and the number drops to 5% or less. Commuter trains are a waste of time here in SoCal. We need more commuter lanes with privilages for hybrid cars, or lanes dedicated to M.T. buses serving major bottlenecks like the I-5 and I-15. Buses are cheap (compared to dedicated rail) and can use existing roadways to access a far larger segment of the community. Bus stops within a mile or less of home. With the limited P2P access of a train there is no value if I still have to wrangle a ride to the office that's 3-4+ miles away from the train station.

For a year I leveraged the 50min. Coaster between Carlsbad (home) and Old Town (work). It was very cool indeed. I could work on the train thus turning my commute into billable hours. Then our offices moved to the Mission Valley area which is 7 miles away from the Old Town station. With little options available to me (and admittedly not willing to add another hour+ each day in transit using the trolley and buses) I was forced to start driving again.

[Superman]

I just returned from a hippie fair where there were tens of thousands of people who agree with you, Wayne. I find that encouraging, though some might react with fright. The best homeland security we could have would be a switch to renewable energy sources. At the fair, I saw bread baked in a solar oven. I saw popcorn popped that same way. Electric cars (battery technology is getting better and electric cars IMHO are right around the corner except for the interests of Big Oil, which will be effective at postponing this alternative) will be very high performance, or at least could be easily. Electric motors have a great deal of torque.

But there is one guy who is determined to reduce the costs of pollution to corporations, which of course will help to postpone the day we're hooing to see. He happens to be an oil magnate and they call him "President."

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by Superman
I just returned from a hippie fair where there were tens of thousands of people who agree with you, Wayne.

Just out of curiosity, how many cars were in the parking lot of the fair?

[Hugh R]

Between me, wifey and daughter we drive about 30,000 miles/year. The cars, 84 Targa, 626 Mazda, Toyota Highlander and Toyota Echo we average about 20 mpg. That means we use about 1,500 gallons of gas/year. At $2.25 average/gallon here in LA that's $3,375 per year for gas. In my good income bracket that represents a small, but significant amount of my income. With gas prices doubling in the last 18 months or so, I shell out an additional $1,500/year, or about $4 per day. Its cutting into my beer budget.

Seriously thought, hydrogen cars (a hydrogen economy) doesn't make sense unless you use nuclear or coal power (we've visited this issue before). We have lots of coal, but the CO2 global warming issue has to be addressed, as well as the enormous environmental issue of strip mining for coal. This country doesn't have the political will (not technical know how) to go back to building nukes.

[cmccuist]

The problem with hippies is that they're great at identifying problems, but poor at solving said problems. Even a perfect battery has to conform to the laws of thermodynamics - you have to recharge them. That energy has to come from somewhere. Granted, generating electricity by nuclear, coal or gas fired turbines is less conceivably less polluting than refining and burning gasoline.

Craig

[JTO]

Most advocates of electric cars fail to realize that electricity isn't pollution free. Just because the point source of the emissions is 1000 miles away doesn't mean the car is emission free.

I have advocated on this board before that we need to utilize the millions of acres of farmland sitting in the land bank. If those acres were used to grow corn, we could probably supplement our gasoline and diesel with ethyl alcohol and biodiesel at rates of 50%. Low-energy enzymatic process exist right now to convert cabohydrate from wood and farm waste into ethyl alcohol. Biodiesel comes from vegitable oils. The beauty of renewable fuels like these is that the current distribution system can be used to fuel our vehicles. No need for special hydrogen stations, etc. This I think is a realistic, achievable solution to the our energy situation. Then we can show the Middle East our collective middle fingers.
Troy

[island911]

Originally posted by Kurt V
Just out of curiosity, how many cars were in the parking lot of the fair?

LOL

But you see, Kurt, they are "good hippies" because they are all for YOU getting rid of your car.

What I want to know, out of curiosity, is, with all those 'nekid hippie-chicks,' did Superman get some? . . .I suppose his tone will tell.

[JTO]

Sorry Craig, you beat me to it. Oh, by the way, no elk on the North Slope. Lots and lots of caribou though! They like to use the pipeline corridor whenever possible because its easier to walk on than that spongy tundra.
Troy

[JTO]

By the way; the pending natural gas pipeline that is to be built along the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System (TAPS) is probably going to transport what is know as "white crude". This is the common name for a liquid hydrocarbon blend that is basically linear hydrocarbon chains derived from natural gas. Its easier to transport than NG because its a liquid at normal temperatures.

Troy

[nostatic]

Anyone with half a brain would agree that renewable energy sources are "a good idea". In the same breath most would argue that the technology isn't there yet, blah blah blah.

This isn't about technology. It isn't about pollution. It isn't about price. It is all about CONTROL. We currently live in a *centralized* power structure. We are almost all fully addicted, and under the thumb of a select few people/companies. Between gasoline and electrcity generation, you have ZERO say over what you get and how much you pay...unless you choose to try and go without.

Over 25 years ago I took a course that used "The Integrated Urban House" as a text book. There was a blueprint for independent living...solar providing power, gray water providing irrigation, well designed structures that required less energy to heat/cool, etc. To date maybe a few hippies have followed that model. But along the way there have been a smattering of people talking about decentralized electricity generation (co-op model), where the power is made on the city block scale instead of the entire city/state model. If over the past 25 years significant money had been put into R&D for renewable energy sources and efficient transportation (bicycles work pretty good...and help keep people from getting fat), we'd be in a very different place.

You can argue that the consumer doesn't want that...they want SUVs and 4K sq ft houses, yada yada. Well, they want that becuase they can afford that becuase we don't have *realistic* energy prices. We pay what it costs now, but not what it costs for the long term. Then again, who cares about the next generation? Oh yeah...since we'll be living longer (although likely disease ridden due to obesity and other fun things), the next generation has to take care of us. Like we've done with them?!?

hey, its early...I haven't had my coffee yet...

[nostatic]

btw, the same battle is shaping in the telecom/wireless industry. Traditional ma bell centralized providors v. massive p2p mesh networks. We are at a tipping point and have a chance to choose. Or will we?

[island911]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Not even close yet. Our lightweight solar car had panels over 85% of it's chassis. If you rotated the car during the day to get maximum exposure, an entire days worth of sun would only charge the batteries 20%. The technology is far from there right now...

-Wayne

good point.

So many of the half-baked concepts (which people imagine, as "thee solution") are about as practical as saying everyone ought to commute in one of these:

[island911]

Oh, and; Technical excellence is nothing, without commercial competitiveness.