Hamm being asked to give his Gold Medal back. Should he?

[RickM]

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

From what I understand, reviewing the performance in question on video and trying to make an adjustment is clearly against the rules. However, it did help to uncover errors that would change the outcome.

Should they be allowed to change the rules now?

If no, should Hamm do the "right" (?") thing and hand the medal over?

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpY29qbG50BF9TAzk2NjcyOTgwBHNlYwN0 aA--?slug=ap-taintedgold&prov=ap&type=lgns

[dd74]

Hey Rick, your link's not working.

As for Hamm, I've heard it was a scoring error. If the scoring error is extremely slight, I lean against him giving back the medal, because with very close scores, one starts to become subjective as far as style and look. Or at least that's what I think.

Now if Hamm made an obvious blunder and still won, sure, he should give it back. His medal would be tainted at that point.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

The only solution to this is to eliminate judged events from the Olympics. Subjective scoring has no place in determining athletic excellence.

[GettinHeadStuds]

Funny thing is, that after reviewing the South Korean's performance, it appears the judges failed to deduct points for a normally automatic deduction. I guess the south korean lifted his hand four times instead of the limit of three. It would have taken the korean out of medal contention.

Schit if I know anything 'bout gymnastics, but I know that Hamm's scoring error wasn't the ONLY mistake involved in this whole situation.

[RickM]

Sorry about the link, just not working. Here's related story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5839534/

I've also heard that there were other errors as well. I'm thinking they should let the Gold stand and learn from their mistakes.

[pbs911]

Unless they make it their custom and practice to review ALL performances, no.

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by GettinHeadStuds
Funny thing is, that after reviewing the South Korean's performance, it appears the judges failed to deduct points for a normally automatic deduction. I guess the south korean lifted his hand four times instead of the limit of three. It would have taken the korean out of medal contention.

What had actually happened was that the Korean did 4 "holds" when you are only allowed 3 in the routine, which would have been an automatic 2/10ths deduction anyway had they scored it properly. Bottomline- the athelete is ultimately responsible for their performance, making sure of the correct starting score, having his/her coach file a protest on the floor *immediately* following the judging which there is a process for. So you mean to tell me the Koreans *still* can't figure this game out after numerous world competitions at this level? Puhleeze... And waiting a good week after the medals are awarded is no way to settle it...the medal should rightly stand with Hamm.

Hamm made his blunder, did some risky performances and gained the points to jump ahead. He shouldn't return squat...

[cmccuist]

The Korean's are contending that the routine was worth 10.0 while the judges scored on the basis of a 9.9. No problem with that on the face of it. After reviewing the film, it turns out the Korean had four pauses in his routine and you're only allowed three - subject to a 0.2 deduction.

You can't have it both ways. The 10.0 - 9.9 was a math error. The four pauses was also a math error - 1, 2, 3, 4. How hard is it to count to 4?!?

Also, you can't take credit for doing a 10.0 routine based on four pauses. For instance, a back toss to handstand is worth more than a back toss swing through. A Stutz to handstand is worth more than a regular Stutz. A glide kip to stradle ell (on one bar) is worth more than a glide kip cast.

You can't take credit for the harder moves and then not take the deduction. You would have to mix in a harder move that did not involve a pause to comply with the rules.

Hamm should keep the medal.

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
The only solution to this is to eliminate judged events from the Olympics. Subjective scoring has no place in determining athletic excellence.

Ditto.

[Az911]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
What had actually happened was that the Korean did 4 "holds" when you are only allowed 3 in the routine, which would have been an automatic 2/10ths deduction anyway had they scored it properly. Bottomline- the athelete is ultimately responsible for their performance, making sure of the correct starting score, having his/her coach file a protest on the floor *immediately* following the judging which there is a process for. So you mean to tell me the Koreans *still* can't figure this game out after numerous world competitions at this level? Puhleeze... And waiting a good week after the medals are awarded is no way to settle it...the medal should rightly stand with Hamm.

Hamm made his blunder, did some risky performances and gained the points to jump ahead. He shouldn't return squat...

I agree Hamm sould NEVER give back his metal. The Koreans know how things work and should have files a protest as the even was going on.

[island911]

Korean!? . . . A gymnast!?

I would have never guessed any of that from Al Gore.

BooHoo .. .the Korean lost, even after review.

[campbellcj]

Admittedly I don't know all the "facts" in this incident (and anyone not directly involved in the competition doesn't either) but in general I think that any judging/scoring errors should be left as-is, where-is. All of these human judged events have a huge element of subjectivity and potential for human error. That's the way sporting events have always been. Adding the BS of hindsight reviews, slow-mo cams, political pressures, and medal revocations is not in the best interest of the sport or the athletes.

If anything I figure they should issue dual-medals i.e. declare a "tie".

[dd74]

Originally posted by campbellcj
...If anything I figure they should issue dual-medals i.e. declare a "tie".

The IOC did that in Sydney four years ago (though I forget if it was for gymnastics), and vowed to never do it again.

[dd74]

BTW: word has it Hamm wanted to give the medal back. But the gymnastics team told him "no way."

Oh and this: word has it Hamm wanted to one day be a Green Bay Packer. Hmmm...I think everyone told him on that one "no way."

[slope-nz]

One of the woman on the USA team also was given a too low starting score. If it had been correct she would have received a bronze in the floor exercise. I haven't heard of any being ask to give up there metal to her. I guess what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander. Randy

[Scooter]

Hamm being asked to give his Gold Medal back. Should he?

No.

[jyl]

No.

Judging and scoring errors are part of sports, including of gymnastics. An error can't be viewed in a vacumn, because the scores are known immediately and they affect the rest of the performance - if the Korean gymnast had received the higher score, perhaps Hamm would have reached even deeper and pulled out an even better performance himself.

If the international gymnastics sport community wants to adopt a general policy of reviewing and changing scoring after the fact, in every competition, then it is free to do so for the future. For many reasons, the sport probably won't chose to make such changes to the rules. In that case, it is unfair to apply such a policy on an arbitrary and occasional basis, to Hamm or to any other athlete. What will happen is what is happening in this case - "give-back" demands get made in response to political pressure, to make young athletes sacrifice their stellar moments so that old men don't have to do the hard work of reforming and improving the judging process.

[azasadny]

They should have had a "do over"!