Wow, hi-cap Glock magazines for $26.

http://www.topglock.com/catalog/sunset.htm

It's not a looks thing so much as a design thing. I said it before - if it is designed for killing people (ie, not hunting or target shooting - and this means AW and most handguns) then I would rather it was heavily restricted to responsible people.

In New Zealand guns are pretty widespread (we are a farming country after all). I checked up, and AW (we call them Military Style Semi Auto - MSSA - apparently) require an endorsement on a gun owners licence. We have about 1/3 the guns per capita compared to the US. Approx 1 in every 5 households has 1 or more guns. We have virtually no handguns (outside collectors and pistol target shooters - think Olympic Games, not a Glock at the local range).

The major difference is attitude. And that is the major problem I see in the US ... attitude. I wasn't even aware that an endorsement was required for AWs here (only 3% of licence holders have any endorsements, incl pistol and collector endorsements), because it isn't important. If you want it, get it. If you can't get it (because of some aspect of your past) then don't complain.

This seems pretty sensible --> you guys apparently agree that the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean EVERYONE should be allowed to bear arms. Presumably you also believe that grenades and rocket launchers should not be widely available. The next step down is automatic weapons - most of you don't think they should be allowed in the hands of the general public. I'm pretty comfortable going a step further.

But it comes back to attitude. By and large, those people who campaign hardest for the 2nd amendment seem to fall into two camps - those who I would be quite happy giving the gun and those I wouldn't. The latter category is comprised entirely of people who appear to lust for the power that the AW gives.

Pete - sorry for the dig about "them" - your conscience is clean and I am very much in the wrong SmileWavy. Do you shoot clay pigeons with a rifle (I've shot at (I missed a lot) a few with a shotgun, and that was hard enough)?

You see, you aren't basing your decisions on effectiveness or whether a weapon would be used by a criminal, but if it LOOKS like a criminal MIGHT use it.

See my point above - to some extent YES, looks is an impact. The majority of armed robbery in NZ is performed with sawnoff shotguns - thereby making the cheapest "short" weapon possible. For this reason, I'm against handguns (or anything easy to conceal). The AW restrictions (licence endorsement and compulsory registration) came in here after the Aramoana massacre, where a dude with a couple of assault rifles went postal in a small community. It is a fact that if he didn't have semi auto rifles he would have been less effective, although I take the point that there are semi-auto rifles which fall outside the AW (or NZ's MSSA) definition.

Sigh... I guess the more someone wants a gun, the less inclined I am to believe they'll be responsible (unless they demonstrate otherwise). Sorry - that statement is going to piss a lot of people off, but it is true.

Summary of NZ situation here:
http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.asp?id=10749

I'm a pre-ban Californian. Ar-15, Fn FAL, etc. Just want more!

Hope "THE MAN" does'nt take my toys some day.

Not all "assault" weapon owners are going to rob banks and out-gun the police.

Cameron, what you say is sensible. But the problem with the gun laws only affects law abiding citizens. Felons are not able to legally obtain weapons in the states, but they do. The only people left out are,.. well us.
Texas and Louisiana changed their laws to make carry a concealed weapon easier. Did you see a rash of nutty gun waving lunatics killing each other in the streets? No we saw a reduction in violent crimes against law abiding citizens. It leveled the playing field. The true problems are criminals not in jail or dead, not my desire to protect my family and property.

Had one too, got real tired of it fast. Sold it to GO TO DISNEYLAND with the family. Fonder memories for all.:D

The way I see it, there are only two situations that will work and put an end to the arguments: either there is a complete ban on every type of gun (meaning no importation, sale, sale of ammunition, sale of spare parts, manufacturing in the US etc), or EVERYONE has a gun. Both situations should see a reduction in crime. It's never going to happen, but hey...

Langers U mean get rid of every gun in the world....don't U....if U can't stop a Mexican coming across the border, what makes U think U can stop a gun...

LOL well you're going to have to increase your border controls then aren't you!!

It'd involve multi billion dollar expenditure, death penalty for anyone caught in possession of a gun etc etc. Probably easier to make it law that everyone carries a gun on them at all times.

The real issue is that Human Beings are violent creatures....Gun Contol people tell you that everything is going to be hunky dory if you only take away the guns.

American society tells people that the way to solve your problems is through the use of violence...watch a John Wayne movie lately?

I guess getting rid of guns would only lead to an increase in the use of knives. Think I'll just go live in a cave ;)

Thats where we come from...but we got this high flautin idea that we is civilized or sumthin... we wana forgit that our fore fathers used to beat each other on the heads....

We think we is too good for our fore fathers who lived in those caves....we is dun civilized now....

Thats where I get off the boat with the Quacking Liberals, they dun think they has arrived, that they is enlightened, all the while forgetting that they still drag their hairy knuckles on the ground when they walk....want it anymore concise?

And I don't fit too well with the other side....who are morons and are proud of it.... as if it's something to aspire to....they even pray for it...Gawd give me strength to be a moron...at least they have the strength of their convictions..."Kill em all, and let Gawd sort them out." or I never saw a bomb I didn't like!

Yeah that will get everybody hating me again....as if I fking care... after all I am Tabs... etc etc etc......

Heres what it takes boyz..it takes holding on to the pain of being a Human Being without being distracted by TV, religion, dope, your mother or even Porsches.... By pain I mean that your MOther doesn't love you, your father hates you and your brothers and sisters want to murder you...you know just the general little disapointments in life....and when you make that pain yours and you become that pain...ah the heavens open up and the light of day shines on you....and i suppose it takes courage to go into that dark cave and hold onto the tail of the varmit that lives in there, after all that varmit is U...U know the one that drags it's hairy knuckles on the ground when he walks...

tabs, try Calgon. http://www.takemeaway.com

U know I have never tried a Calgon bath before..it sounds like it can be quiet refreshing..with all those tropical island scents...just imagine Tahitian Orchard..... ssssnnnn....ahhhh...

Sheesh! You should quit reading Yeats while hung over. :rolleyes:

Yeah Yeah Mother always did say I get intense and should learn to lighten up....especially after a night in the casinos

I say only liberals should be banned from owning weapons. :D