Kerry team says the draft is coming back

[fintstone]

What is this penchant that liberal politicians have for lying? Do they think the only way to get voters is to scare them into voting Democrat?

Will draft fears sway voters?
Cleland and Dean tell students that Bush would conscript them and ship them to Iraq

By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
MSNBC
Updated: 6:39 p.m. ET Sept. 17, 2004


WASHINGTON - Elect John Kerry, Vice President Dick Cheney warned voters in Iowa two weeks ago, and America will get hit again by terrorists.

Elect George Bush, some Kerry surrogates said last week, and you or your children will be drafted to fight in Iraq.

Inspiring fear in voters seems to be in political vogue this fall. (Cheney has since amended his comments to say he meant to argue that Bush has a more serious approach to deterring terrorists than does Kerry.)

Some voters seem inclined to believe that Bush would attempt to revive conscription, which ended 31 years ago. During a question-and-answer session on Wednesday, the mother of a recent West Virginia University graduate asked Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards whether the draft would be reinstated.

"There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," the North Carolina senator vowed, raising the question of whether there would be a draft if Bush remains in the White House.

Edwards’ comment came on the heels of remarks last week by Kerry’s friend and fellow Vietnam War veteran, former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland.

Warning college students
In a speech at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, Cleland told students they might find themselves pressed into military service if Bush wins a second term.

“America will reinstate the military draft” if Bush is re-elected and continues the Iraq War, Cleland predicted, according to an account of his speech by the Colorado Springs Gazette.

"Pay attention ... to what you've got going on in Iraq. That, ladies and gentlemen, is Vietnam. I've seen this movie before. I know how it ends. It does not end pleasantly," he added. Cleland has been in a wheelchair since 1968 when he lost both legs and one arm in a grenade accident in Vietnam.

Former Kerry rival Howard Dean, now traveling the country to drum up support for Kerry and raise money for Democratic candidates, said last week at Brown University in Providence, R.I., "I think that George Bush is certainly going to have a draft if he goes into a second term, and any young person that doesn't want to go to Iraq might think twice about voting for him."

The Dean-Cleland strategy seems to be an attempt to drive up support for Kerry among college students and perhaps among some parents as well.

According to Kerry campaign spokesman Mark Kitchens, Kerry’s position is that he does not see the need for a draft.

Kerry’s view is that “the way to attract people (to military service) is to be responsible about the way the military is employed,” said Kitchens.

He added that Kerry aims to “bring more allies to our side” so that the U.S. military is not carrying the full burden of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Concerns about Guard and Reserve
Kerry said in a speech to the National Guard Association in Las Vegas Thursday that “40 percent of our forces in Iraq are from the Guard and Reserve. Far too many of you have been on the ground for far too long, much longer than was expected or promised. Far too many of you face additional deployments in the months and years ahead.”

According to a report issued Wednesday by the Government Accountability Office (formerly the General Accounting Office), since Sept. 11, 2001, more than 335,000 reservists have been involuntarily called to active duty. (The non-partisan GAO is the audit and investigative arm of Congress.)

The GAO report said, “There are already indications that some portions of the force are being stressed. For example, the Army National Guard failed to meet its recruiting goal during 14 of 20 months from October 2002 through May 2004, and ended fiscal year 2003 approximately 7,800 soldiers below its recruiting goal.”

Partly to remedy this heavy use of the Guard and Reserves, Kerry has proposed expanding the active-duty Army by 40,000 troops, but without resorting to a draft.

Kitchens said Kerry could meet this goal of 40,000 by ordering an intensification of recruitment efforts.

Bush opposes draft
Both Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have repeatedly said they oppose a draft.

"We don't need the draft," Bush told a campaign audience in Florida last month. "I'll tell you one way you make (the all-volunteer Army) work. I just signed a defense appropriations bill, which is the fourth year in a row in which we've raised the pay of those who wear our uniform, and the pay's getting better. And the housing is getting better."

“This country does not need a draft,” Rumsfeld told an Army sergeant who’d just returned from Iraq and asked about the draft at a town hall meeting in Fort Bliss, Texas on Aug. 23.

Noting the size of the U.S. population, more than 290 million people, Rumsfeld said, “If you add up everyone we are looking for in the active forces, 1.4 million and the Guard and Reserve and the selective reserve and individual ready reserve and if you add them all up, it’s about 2.5 million. And all you have to do is alter the incentives and we can attract and retain all the people we need. We do not need to go to compulsion.”

Rumsfeld recalled that as a member of the House of Representatives in the 1960s, he introduced legislation to create an all-volunteer Army.

He thought in the 1960s that “we owed it to people to pay them and treat them like we would if we had to go out and in (the labor) market, attract and retain them.”

And in today’s all-volunteer military, Rumsfeld said, “That’s what we do.”

Use of stop-loss orders
But Rumsfeld’s’ critics, including Kerry, have noted that the Pentagon has had to resort to stop-loss orders, which allow the military services to keep both active and reserve soldiers and Marines on active duty beyond the end of their obligated service.

Michael O’Hanlon, a defense strategist at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said in a recent article in the Army War College journal that “after criticizing the Clinton Administration for over-deploying and overusing the U.S. military in the 1990s, the Bush administration is now doing exactly the same thing — except on a much larger scale.”

He warned that “large numbers of active-duty troops and reservists may soon leave the service rather than subjecting themselves to a life continually on the road.”

But O’Hanlon also said “the draft is not the answer.” Instead he called for an expansion of the size of the Army and perhaps the Marines as well.

[jm951]

Hey, if you vote Republican in Missouri, another black church will burn! At least that's what they said last time around.

[island911]

their black skerr tactic is even worse this time around.

These guys are desparate. . .going all negative, all the time.

(well, except for when Kerry states the ambiguous "I've got a plan, for that".)

[A Quiet Boom]

Hmmm the man who (at least last week) wants to send more troops to Iraq, says GWB will reinstitute the draft? Curious how the monkey follows the orders of his master (DNC)

[Kevin Powers]

anyone who thinks the conscription act will NOT be reimplemented is a fool. no matter who is appointed president. this should have been obvious when ex-service personel, that were still within the 8 year service window, moving on with their civilian life, started getting sucked back in.

[tabs]

We need bodies to fill in the ranks..unfortunately there aren't enough people to enlist (who wants to get shot at)....it seems that a volunteer army works during Peace Time... but not during a war...Realistically a country with the World standing we have has some real manpower needs that a volunteer army just can't fill.

[tabs]

During peace time being in the military is all upside...when in war it's all downside....when you join up U should know the risks involved, and after taking the benfits you gotta be prepared to take the lumps...

[Kevin Powers]

getting out, going to school, getting married and starting a family, and losing it all because of someone elses blunder, is a bit more than a bloody nose.

kevin

[island911]

Originally posted by fintstone
What is this penchant that liberal politicians have for lying? Do they think the only way to get voters is to scare them into voting Democrat?

Will draft fears sway voters?
. . .

Yes; and yes, some. (as we've seen here)

These guys are desparate. . .both the head-lobbing insurgence/terrorists AND the sKerry Kamp.

sKerry thinks that, with his superior leadership (as we've seen from his finely led campaign ) that he can clean it up w/o a draft . .. but Bush!? . .. Bush will draft his way out of this.

The thing is, this war is winding down.

Here we are, near the end of our election cycle, and the enemy is throwing everthing they've got at us.

Clearly, vastly more troops will not be needed, as the enemy isn't growing in population. . . just in desperation.

[dd74]

Originally posted by island911

The thing is, this war is winding down.

Here we are, near the end of our election cycle, and the enemy is throwing everthing they've got at us.

Clearly, vastly more troops will not be needed, as the enemy isn't growing in population. . . just in desperation.

Huh? Huh? and WTF?

Three statements and three

[Kevin Powers]

winding down? WINDING DOWN!!!? where did you gleen this bit of inside knowledge? does eastsound have some source of news that we on the other side of the boat ride are unaware of? do you really believe that after the election hostilities will cease? that contention is more than silly. the fur will continue to fly both in iraq and other places long after the elections are past.

kevin

[ubiquity0]

"the war is winding down" but "the enemy is throwing everthing [sic] they've got at us."

http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total-by-month.pdf
http://icasualties.org/oif/

[dd74]

The only way I see it "winding down" is purely because of the election. If Bush gets reelected, it'll be time for Iraq to reset their watches to the Stone Age.

[island911]

Originally posted by dd74
Huh? Huh? and WTF?

Three statements and three

yes, I know . .. not the mainstream dogma.

The media feels that they have carte blanche to play-up the sky-is-falling story (it sells, btw ) . . .ever since that study of 'what bad might happen'.
Furthermore, Kerry, and his minions are betting the farm on their ability to keep afloat the perception that Iraq is bad, and getting worse. (nice -- their only hope is based on more Americans getting killed)

Anyway, Iraqs Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's interview on Meet the Press (I think) was very telling. It fits very well with what I hear coming from some of the 'soldier on the ground' reports.

There are pockets of desperation. . .but they are getting pushed further away (politically, from Iraqis POV) as well as being killed.

[widebody911]

Logic Error, does not compute!

If everything was all rosey as you make it out to be, Island, troops would be coming home instead of being subjected to 'stop loss' orders and pulled out of retirement.

This bit about "Kerry, and his minions are betting the farm on their ability to keep afloat the perception that Iraq is bad," is simply laughable.

Hint: tune into something other than Fox news.

[tabs]

Whenever a guy is willing to strap on 50 lbs of C4 and light himself off like a Roman candle it's serious....you might just start calling this DEATH MATCH 2004....

Further I would be the last person to say or want anybody to be shot at, but this just goes beyond....the chips have all been laid on the Pass line called Irwreck and the dice have been thrown by Billbo in the Whitehouse for better or worse..

[island911]

Originally posted by widebody911
. . .

This bit about "Kerry, and his minions are betting the farm on their ability to keep afloat the perception that Iraq is bad," is simply laughable.
. . .

yeah? . . how's that? what other BIG mover do they have? . . .memos?

[dd74]

Originally posted by tabs
....the chips have all been laid on the Pass line called Irwreck and the dice have been thrown by Billbo in the Whitehouse for better or worse..

...well if that's the case, will a hostess bring me another scotch and soda?

[Superman]

tit for tat. what's good for the goose.....

As the article stated up front, we recently were told that if we elect Kerry, terrorists will attack us again. So, if the dems use the Karl Rove method of election-winning and they win, I'd expect that Kerry will get a salute from the neocons here. If you're proud of your guy for doing it.....

I've been hearing this draft rumor for quite a long time now. At least 2 or 3 months. From folks who should know. At least we know that Dubya is planning these unfortunate decisions ahead of time, rather than them being spur of the moment, emotional decisions. We can't tell.

[bluebullet]

they can draft all they want, but I cant go (not that I want to anyway). My parents divorced and im the only male of the house, besides being the oldest of 3 children. So by law even if I wanted to join, they wouldnt let me.


If I was forced to draft, id either wash myself out of bootcamp, or if I got over there and got held captive by one of those beheading terrorist bastards, id shoot myself before it came down to that.


Yeah Operation Flashpoint is a great game to play (based on a fictional 1985 cold war against USSR), but its just a game...I forgot how many times I got killed and had to start over. But in Iraq there is no 'retry mission' button. You die, thats it.


If bush gets re-elected, our troops will leave Iraq...that Im sure of....why? Because someones gonna get smart and nuke the Fallujah or whatever the name of the town is and blow em all to hell. There are buildings there that have been knocked down since 1991 that havent been rebuilt..so its not like they are goin newheres anyway.

And if we leave Iraq, what are they going to do to us? Ok yeah they might harbor terrorists. The ones that are killing our soldiers right now because they dont want us to be there.
They dont have an army to go raid Kuwait or Saudi Arabia....its not like they are going to take over the oil fields again. From what I last heard, Iraq still owed the world a substantial amount of money back in 1991 from borrowing so much to try to rebuild his nation. Which is why he attacked kuwait and poised on Saudi Arabia (well..it was one of the reasons). We shouldnt have gone over there in the first place



It wasnt our business to go there in a first place, but Bush said they have links to Osama and carry WMD. Well no WMD so far, just bull**** claims, and I havent seen much about Osama. What says hes not still hiding in Afganistan or somewhere over there? I think its really funny that with the big ass CIA and all our powerful organized spy stuff, we havent found a wealthy little terrorist and his camel...