Liberal education ruins young minds

[fintstone]

Now I understand why some of the folks that post here who were educated in liberal universities think as they do. what's up in CA? A (rare) conservative prof takes one to task:

Shut up and teach!

October 13, 2004

Dear Professor Snider (csnider@csulb.edu):

Someone recently sent me a copy of the guidelines for a research paper that you require of your students at California State University, Long Beach. According to your website, the purpose of the paper is “to persuade or at least to create tolerance for your point of view on a controversial issue; also to acknowledge the opposing side of the issue.”

Below the basic requirements for the paper, you have listed a number of suggested “Subjects for an Argument Paper.” Below I have listed some of my favorite entries:

Energy… A related topic is Dick Cheney's secret conference on energy policy. Why hasn't the administration revealed who participated and should it reveal this information? Also important is the fact that, as Kevin Phillips writes, "four generations of the [Bush] dynasty have chased [oil] profits through cozy ties with Mideast leaders, spinning webs of conflicts of interest"…

The Economy… Under President Clinton, the Federal Government had a handle on the national debt. Now the Bush administration is passing that debt on to the post-baby-boom generation…

Birth Control: Should the so-called "morning-after" contraceptive pills (pills that prevent fertilized eggs from implantation) be more readily available to all, whether they can afford them or not and regardless of age? Of course, in your paper you would need to state your position and support it while acknowledging the opposing position. (You cannot argue that such pills amount to an abortion…).

Should Justice Sandra Day O'Connor have been impeached for her partisan, political actions in the Bush v. Gore case of December 2000 (she is reported to have expressed a desire to retire but would do so only if a Republican were president…)? What about Justice Scalia, whose son worked for the law firm of the lawyer who argued for Bush before the Supreme Court, or Justice Thomas, whose wife was part of an organization selecting people to work in a potential Bush administration?

George W. Bush's time in the National Guard presents important questions about the character of a man who has sent hundreds of Americans to their deaths in war and killed and maimed untold thousands of others…

Breaking a campaign promise, Bush has reversed rules to limit industrial carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere…Do you agree or disagree with this decision?

Is it right for the Bush Administration to use the War on Terrorism for political or commercial purposes?...

What role does George W. Bush have in the Enron scandal? How should the various Congressional investigation (sic) proceed? Should any new laws be passed? Should all those who have received contributions from Enron recess themselves or only those who received a certain amount of money…

It is no secret that the Bush administration and many Republicans have taken steps to undo the progress in environmental protection made before they took office. Now that they control the presidency and the Congress, they have better opportunities to carry out their agenda…

Civil Liberties: The Bush administration has used the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 to erode the civil rights of citizens and non-citizens alike… What can be done to stop this erosion of liberties or can you logically defend it?...

Should there be stricter laws against a woman harming her potential child through smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, or using other drugs while pregnant?...

What evidence do we have that Mr. Bush and his cronies lied to the American people and the world in promoting the war with Iraq? Do you agree that America has lost its "moral authority" in the world because of this immoral war?...

Although George W. Bush said he would support the national continuation of the ban on assault weapons, he did nothing to urge Congress to pass it…

I was somewhat surprised, Professor Snider, at some of the subjects you told your students to avoid. It was also interesting to read the manner in which you told them to avoid particular subjects. Some examples follow:

Religion (we have freedom of religion in this country and everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs but cannot force others to accept those beliefs; just as no one can prevent you from following your religious beliefs, so you cannot prevent others from not following your beliefs. This does not mean you can not argue issues such as [the Establishment Clause]. What it means is that you can't use your own religious beliefs to support an argument…)

Anything you're already convinced of before you start your research, especially subjects you're emotionally involved in. My reasoning is that with such a topic you would not be able to see that there is another side and this would destroy your argument.

Topics on which there is, in my opinion, no other side apart from chauvinistic, religious, or bigoted opinions and pseudo-science (for example, female circumcision, prayer in public schools, same-sex marriage, the so-called faith-based initiative, abortion, hate crime laws, the existence of the Holocaust, and so-called creationism)

… McNally correctly concludes that those who oppose same-sex marriage do so for one reason: homophobia… (H)omophobia is to gays and lesbians what racism is to people of color. Neither homophobia nor racism can be tolerated in civilized, rational debate; therefore, I will not accept either as arguments, however disguised, in your papers.

Professor Snider, I hope that you will allow me to add a few suggestions to your list of proposed paper topics. I have listed several below, all in the form of a question:

How have Professor Snider and his cronies converted the college classroom into a platform for their warped political beliefs?

Why does Professor Snider refer to a fetus as a “potential child” after saying that abortion is not debatable in his class?

How does Professor Snider identify “Topics on which there is, in (his) opinion, no other side apart from chauvinistic, religious, or bigoted opinions and pseudo-science?”

Does Professor Snider’s emotional involvement with the issue of homosexuality cause him to violate the religious freedom of his students?

Is Professor Snider “heterophobic?”

Does Professor Snider’s intolerance and ignorance of the First Amendment mean that all “queer critics” are intolerant, ignorant, or both?

Should college students be allowed to wear “shut up and teach” t-shirts to class at California State University, Long Beach?

And, finally, I have a question for you, Professor Snider. Would it be unreasonable to ask you to just shut up and teach English? Or does that make me a “queer critic,” too?

Respectfully,

Mike S. Adams

[fintstone]

and a follow-up article:

Shut up and sue!

Mike S. Adams

October 15, 2004

Hello Clifton. It is nice to hear from you. I just received your email, which follows in its entirety:

Dear Mike S. Adams,

On your web site you are using my copyrighted material from my web site (and misrepresenting it) without my permission. The material is meant for my professional work only. Stop using it now.

Thank you.

Clifton Snider, Ph.D.

I understand that you are quite upset with me over my recent article, entitled “Shut up and teach.” Being exposed as an ideological bigot isn’t much fun, is it? It is especially disheartening when you have been bullying helpless college students and finally encounter an opponent that you cannot control. That would be me.

Before I get off topic, I have a few questions. In your email, you refer to the California State University, Long Beach website as “your” website. How much did it cost you to buy the public university website? I assume that you are telling the truth when you say that www.csulb.edu is “your” website. You must be a very wealthy man. I didn’t know that “queer literary critics” made so much money.

Also, what do you mean when you say that my article misrepresents “your” website? People who logged on to “your” site directly (http://www.csulb.edu/~csnider/argument.html) indicated that you were much more ideologically bigoted than you were portrayed in my article. Shouldn’t you thank me for enhancing your academic reputation?

Finally, before I publish the following complaint, which was made against you on www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org, could you tell me whether it “misrepresents” you? Also, is the “students for academic freedom” website “your” website, too?:

I am taking this English composition class to fulfill my general education (GE) requirements. On the first night of this class, Sep. 1, 2004, Dr. Snider went over the class syllabus for the semester. This syllabus includes 5 essays that are to be turned in over the semester. One of these essays is to be written on a film that he will show in class, as he so stated will most likely be Fahrenheit 9/11. (Because Michael Moore is a genius and his film exposes how our so called "President Bush" is an idiot.) He then proceeded for the next hour and a half of this ENGLISH class to talk strictly about his hate of "president" (he kept doing the quote signs with his fingers) Bush and the Iraqi War. There were no more attempts made by Dr. Snider to talk about the true subject matter of the class, ENGLISH. I have been in this class for almost 2 weeks now and politics seems to be the main issue lectured on, however he makes lame attempts to tie his own liberal propaganda into an English example, (i.e.; Newspaper articles, Presidential Speeches, etc. )Furthermore, a second essay that we are to write must be written on a book we have read that appears on his "approved reading list". The list of books in his syllabus has a dominant theme: Sexual perversion and anti Bush rhetoric. (A copy of this list can be found on his website at www.csulb.edu/~csnider) This website which indicated in his syllabus "contains important class material" is a website dedicated primarily to his own gay literature and anti Bush poetry. I, and many other students, had a very difficult time navigating our way through his site to find some obscure hidden link to our school documents that must be printed off of this website. Also, Dr. Snider has taken it upon himself to give us a moral/ ethical and spiritual lesson before each class begins. The university offers ethics classes, and I obviously have no problem with ethics. I just do not believe that Dr. Snider is trained to lecture on such topics. (And from what I do know of his ethics and morals, I feel slightly offended that he somehow believes that his morals are superior to mine- I do not draw an ethical comparison between President Bush and Saddam Hussein as does Dr. Snider).

Finally, Clifton, since you are a “queer literary critic,” could you tell me who it was that said you should never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel? Wasn’t it Mark Twain? Have you ever read Mark Twain?

See you later, Clifton, and good luck with your lawsuit.

Yours in academic freedom,

Mike S. Adams

[pwd72s]

Government Schools don't educate...they indoctrinate...K thu 16, they indoctrinate.

[fintstone]

Scary stuff, huh?

[CarreraS2]

I think most universities, public and private, tend to lean (often hard) to the left. I know the Ivies did!

But this CSULB prof. is way out there. Sheesh, what happened to a little bit of subtlety?

It does seem that liberals tend to be less tolerant of the view of others than conservatives - this guy is a PERFECT example of that practice. Consider this part of his course syllabus, where he describes a category of topics which CANNOT be the subject of the students' essays:

"Topics on which there is, in my opinion, no other side apart from chauvinistic, religious, or bigoted opinions and pseudo-science (for example, female circumcision, prayer in public schools, same-sex marriage, the so-called faith-based initiative, abortion, hate crime laws, the existence of the Holocaust, and so-called creationism)."

That is classic. Anyone who would even dare disagree with him in any way on prayer in school, same sex marriate, abortion, or creationism is *automatically* a chauvinistic bigot.

Nice!

[fintstone]

My daughter has to wear an ROTC uniform to class and listyen to the crap that Professors like this spew out at her. I am afraid that some day I will get a call and find out she has slapped one around or given one of these guys a wedgie and locked him in a locker.

[bryanthompson]

For a really really good book about this stuff, check out David Limbaugh's book, "Persecution." It's _really_ good. he goes through detailed casess of indoctrination and whatnot.

Also, check out http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/brainwashing-101.html
It's a very good video... i can't wait until the whole thing is finished.

[bryanthompson]

University of Michigan class: "How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation"
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030818-122317-3268r.htm

[emcon5]

This is priceless. From his argument page, listed under "Subjects to Avoid"

3. Anything you're already convinced of before you start your research, especially subjects you're emotionally involved in. My reasoning is that with such a topic you would not be able to see that there is another side and this would destroy your argument.

From his list of topics, it seems his mind is made up on pretty much all of them.

Tom

[bryanthompson]

From the same page:

Use at least three different qualified, unbiased sources. Of these, only one can be from an authorized web site. Such a web site at the very minimum must be written by an unbiased expert in the field and published by a non-commercial source (no "dot.coms" other than news periodicals, such as latimes.com).

Did he just use 'qualified' and 'unbiased' in the same sentence as latimes.com? Not only that, but in his topic list, he uses the Los Angeles Times for sources FIFTY SEVEN TIMES.

Look at the footnote on the page

*According to university policy, passed by the Academic Senate on 28 February 2000, the "primary responsibility [of professors] to their subject is to seek and to state the truth as they see it." As far as academic freedom goes, "the special nature of universities protects professors from being question[ed] about their lectures"

[cegerer]

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. 'Nuff said?

[island911]

Originally posted by cegerer
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. 'Nuff said?

No, not really. Saying stuff like that just discourages those who may actually have something to offer.

Certainly you can remember some engineering prof's who had it going on. I know that I can. Those who were teaching after (or during) a successful industry career were a seriously nice breath of fresh air. They were the ones who presented Real-World knowlege & application.

Jokers like Finstones example we need to learn to deal with too. I remember we (egr students) were required to take a "multi-cultural" GUR. A buddy was taking "Hispanic Studies". I asked him how he was doing. He said; "well, I failed my first paper. " . . .but then I grew a goatee, and started parroting back how the US has screwed Mexico at every turn . . .and now I'm getting A's." --cracked me up.

Most those liberal zealots are so mono-themed, students are quick to play them like the idiots they are.

[concentric]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Government Schools don't educate...they indoctrinate...K thu 16, they indoctrinate.

First off, I'm no fan of the ivory tower. I find many "experts" to be uneducated in how things actually work, and the students (c.f. Hahvard and Stanford) even more pedantic and cock-sure.

That said, however...

There are a lot of good and fair professors in state-sponsored schools, or at least at the Unversity of California. Not all of them are political yes-people, I've met some really intelligent and truly tolerant folks since I've been there.

Certainly there is some degree of bias in the post-modern anti-establishment critique mode that is popular these days, but some degree of wisdom still exists in those that can truly teach. In the world of the true teacher (well in the soft subjects, anyway) there should be no "right" answers, just supported and unsupported arguments, if you understand that distinction.

JCM

[cegerer]

Island, you are correct. I can remember a grand total of 2 professors whom I was impressed with. One was a Chemical Engineer for Dow who came in and taught in the evenings. The other owned an engineering consulting business and would take occasional sabiticals to teach. I'll stand by my statement for the rest .......

It is a shame, for sure.

[Rob Channell]

Just stay away from most Liberal Arts.....

When I was a freshman I went to my first English class and it was taught by a butch female graduate student with an attitude. I was just starting the Engineering program and was pegged as one immediately when she noticed my large T-square from drafting class.

I wrote my first two papers and got D's on both. There were no markings on the papers other than the letter grade. I figured I was in college now and had a LOT to learn so I went to talk to her about my paper's problems so I could improve my future papers.

I had no grammar problems, no spelling errors, no topical inconsistancies, no theme problems, etc. She reread my papers and could not point out a single flaw or area that needed improving. She just "Didn't like it." I dropped the class and later took it during a work quarter from a Phd instead of a graduate student. Made an A. My education was only just starting..............

By the way, does anyone understand why an engineering major requires several liberal arts classes and a liberal arts major only needs maybe one math class (like Algebra.......a 7th -9th grade level class)?

Here's a professor I am impressed with.
I really wish they had had THIS class when I went to school....
http://www.me.udel.edu/meeg467/index.html

May have to email them about getting a video tape of the lectures, etc.

[928ram]

By the way, does anyone understand why an engineering major requires several liberal arts classes and a liberal arts major only needs maybe one math class (like Algebra.......a 7th -9th grade level class)?

Because the expect the engineering major to actually do something with his degree.

[cegerer]

"By the way, does anyone understand why an engineering major requires several liberal arts classes and a liberal arts major only needs maybe one math class (like Algebra.......a 7th -9th grade level class)?"

"Because the expect the engineering major to actually do something with his degree."

Hmmmm, hadn't thought of that. I always thought it was to meet girls.

[jyl]

I don't agree that all liberal arts professors are worthless monkeys, although this particular professor sounds like one.

I certainly agree that students should not graduate from college without a decent grounding in science. IMHO, basic math (through integral calculus, at least) and basic physics (mechanics, thermodynamics, and electromagnetism) should be required for everyone. Any well prepared student should be able to complete this with 50% of his/her class load in the freshman year. And the better-prepared students could have this done before they even start college. Maybe you get to choose computer science, chemistry, or something similar instead of the physics. It's not so much because everyone should know Faraday's law, it's about forcing students to think in a rigorous, disciplined and detailed way on problems that demand a precise answer, not just a bunch of aesthetic opinions.

As a side benefit, this would actually help the engineering majors meet girls, since they'd now have classes with all the perky co-ed poli sci majors . . .

No offense to the poli sci majors here, should you choose to reveal yourselves.

I don't know that the liberal arts requirements are so onerous, though.
I got my B.A. from UC Berkeley with hardly any liberal arts classes. In four years / twelve quarters, I recall a single classical lit class (interesting), one English lit class (not interesting), one beginning psych class (worthless), and one history class (very fun - found tons of records deep in the library stacks on the WWII strategic bombing of Germany, wrote a paper on it). All the rest were mathematics, physics, and some computer programming. Oh, yeah, a bit of economics, German, and military history with the ROTC guys.

[Mule]

This crap is coast to coast. I used to live across the street from a math professor. A friend told me that even in math he coldn't stay off the subject of socialist wonderfulness.

[Rob Channell]

Originally posted by cegerer


"Because the expect the engineering major to actually do something with his degree."

Hmmmm, hadn't thought of that. I always thought it was to meet girls.

LOL