More NeoCon Fascism

[widebody911]

http://www.sierratimes.com/04/10/20/carlworden.htm

[304065]

Sounds like you and Mr. Worden need a refresher on the definition of "fascism." Throwing around that term loosely to refer to your political opponents this close to the election both smacks of desparation, and attempts to invoke the suffering of millions under "fascism" as that was practiced in Nazi Germany, Italy and Spain earlier last century.

And do you know what? Removing a couple of teachers wearing t-shirts from a Bush rally is NOT "FASCISM." It ain't even CLOSE.

Perhaps a trip through the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., or a re-read of Survival in Auschwitz by Primo Levi would better acquaint you (and Mr. Worden) with the true nature of that term?

My decision to vote for Kerry was a vote to get Bush and his administration out.

Sounds well thought out and insightful.

[Superman]

The photo and story meet my definition of "obscene," as does my president. I consider GWB to be as anti-American as virtually anyone in history. One of the most dangerous Americans who ever lived, and certainly the worst "president" of all time. He should be impeached and jailed. His rhetoric dishonest, but engaging and effective. His behavior is treacherous. It is embarrasing to me that he has any support from any American.

The Republican party used to be a good one. I have no problem whatsoever with real, rational moderate republicans. I know quite a number of them, and have the utmost respect for many. But they are now abandoning that party like rats off a sinking ship, and for very good reasons. There is just no doubt in my mind that, during my lifetime and probably very soon now, we will see the pendulum swing HARD left.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by john_cramer
Sounds like you and Mr. Worden need a refresher on the definition of "fascism."
Do you know what fascism is?[/b]
And do you know what? Removing a couple of teachers wearing t-shirts from a Bush rally is NOT "FASCISM." It ain't even CLOSE.
A lot closer than you a) realise b) will admit
Perhaps a trip through the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., or a re-read of Survival in Auschwitz by Primo Levi would better acquaint you (and Mr. Worden) with the true nature of that term?
Fasism is a poltical doctrine, not a synonym for genocide. It's important to separate the two in order to see the elements of fascism evident in this country today. The Holocaust was the result of the actions of unchecked Fascist regime, but in and of itself is not part of the definition thereof. A parallel can be made today in the call for the extermination of Muslims in the name of combatting terrorism.

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for
the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats
as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[notfarnow]

All I can say is, wow. That's scary.

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by Superman
The Republican party used to be a good one. I have no problem whatsoever with real, rational moderate republicans. I know quite a number of them, and have the utmost respect for many. But they are now abandoning that party like rats off a sinking ship, and for very good reasons.

If Republicans are "jumping ship," then Bush is wooing many Democrats, eh? After all, The polls seem to indicate a dead heat between Bush-Kerry much like Gore-Bush in 2000. Must be scary to know Democrats are jumping ship in favor of Bush.

[Superman]

I have heard hundreds of stories of life-long republicans who are abandoning that party. I have not heard a single story of any democrat becoming a republican.

The pendulum has not swung hard left. Yet. But the ultra-conservative branch of the Republican Party is doing all it can to bring that about. I am very encouraged by what I see. I can see a new dawn for the working men and women of my country. The Republican Party and its corporate partners have been engaging in a War on American Citizens, and they're going to lose that war. I had wondered whether I would see that take place during my working life. Now I think I will.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Superman
I can see a new dawn for the working men and women of my country. The Republican Party and its corporate partners have been engaging in a War on American Citizens, and they're going to lose that war. I had wondered whether I would see that take place during my working life. Now I think I will.

I think it's a little premature to claim victory; if nothing else, it will take decades to undo the devastation done to our economic infrastructure in the name of 'competitiveness' - and the repair can't start until the raping stops.

[304065]

Thom: thanks for posting the identifying characteristics of a fascist state. Now that it's clear you are familiar with them, my original point makes even more sense: that you are throwing around the label "fascist" to describe the behavior of the opposite party merely in an attempt to inspire shock.

Or do you genuinely believe that those 14 conditions exist within the United States?

Oh, and although I appreciate your attempt to distinguish facsicm from the Holocaust, to most people, the latter is considered very closely associated with the former. Do you spend a lot of time complaining about the evils of fascism, for example, in the Weimar Republic? When the word "fascism" is invoked, does the casual reader immediately think of Mussolini? It's pretty clear what you and Mr. Worden are trying to get across.

But all this left-brain stuff doesn't seem to be getting through to you. How about this, instead?

[Superman]

Yes, liberties go away a little at a time. The are replaced only with revolution. Other than that, you don't get back the liberties you lost, little by little.

True, Thom. But it's encouraging nonetheless. For comfort, sometimes I just remind myself that, in a democracy, violent revolution is not necessary. Working stiffs outnumber rich folks by a wide margin. So, if we ever figure out what's going on, as a citizenry, we can make the desired changes almost any November.

[red ufo]

Superman

that's called incrementalism on our rights. You take them away slow but sure, much like the boiling frog effect.

The problem is, the neocons are accerating the increments and the sheeple are waking up and realizing this.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by red ufo
The problem is, the neocons are accerating the increments and the sheeple are waking up and realizing this.

Actually, the problem is that people are not waking up to this - at least not in sufficient numbers. The jingoistic 'let's kill all the A-rabs' and 'support our troops' is a much easier sell than 'what is the Administration really up to'.

[304065]

Well, lookie here! We got us some gen-u-ine Civil Liberterians here on this thread!

Tell me, each of you (those with multiple personalities are limited to one response per IP address), where is your STRIDENT DISDAIN for the consistent erosion of the Second Amendment? Where is your MORAL OUTRAGE at the erosion of freedom of the press in the Sinclair Broadcasting fiasco? Where is your RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION when the party of the WORKING PEOPLE chooses, as their candidate, a BILLIONAIRE with a WAR RECORD?

It seems to be out to lunch. And this is not an accident, it's because it's all very well to go on and on about Civil Liberties, so long as they comport with YOUR dream of a Socialist Utopia.

So don't go wrapping yourself in the Constitution just yet. And please immediately cease and desist from comparing Republicans to Fascists. It cheapens the memory of those who genuinely suffered under those regimes for you to exploit that label by applying it willy-nilly.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by john_cramer
Oh, and although I appreciate your attempt to distinguish facsicm from the Holocaust, to most people, the latter is considered very closely associated with the former.

It's intellectually dishonest not to separate them, in the same way that Christianity is usually separated from the Crusades...

...or is it?

[island911]

Originally posted by Superman
Yes, liberties go away a little at a time. The are replaced only with revolution. Other than that, you don't get back the liberties you lost, little by little.

. ..

Yep. like those ever-present, ever increasing taxes, slowly creeping in and stealing our lives.

Thank God Regan and GW came along.

Then we have; Storm-troopers breaking in to steal little Elian Gonzalas., Waco, Ruby Ridge. . ..VS; no knitting needles, or toe-nail clipers on airplanes.

Oh hey, Thom, don't forget GW's control over his Ra^ther Biased media. Yep Facist, thru & thru.

[RickM]

Originally posted by Superman
Yes, liberties go away a little at a time. The are replaced only with revolution. Other than that, you don't get back the liberties you lost, little by little.

Sounds familiar...can you say gun control?

[cool_chick]

OMG, those points on fascism.....we have definitely begun leaning towards many of those points in 4 short years.....