The real reason for the invasion.

[widebody911]

Probably the best written explanation of the invasion & war I've seen, better yet, it leaves out the intra-American politcs and terrorism out of the picture.

http://www.rupe-india.org/34/military.html

Key points:

• Securing US supplies
  Given its growing dependence on oil imports, the US cannot afford to allow the oil producing regions to be under the influence of any other power, or independent.
• Maintaining dollar hegemony
  if other imperialist powers were able to displace US dominance in the region, the dollar would be dealt a severe blow. The pressure for switching to the euro would become irresistible and would ring the death knell of dollar supremacy.
• Oil as a weapon
  Once it has seized the oil wells of west Asia, the US will determine not only which firms would bag the deals, not only the currency in which oil trade would be denominated, not only the price of oil on the international market, but even the destination of the oil.

If GWB had come right out and said "we need to take over Iraq so you can continue to drive your Escalades every day" - would he have got any support?

How did the Romans get the support of their populace for their expansion? I saw a bit on TV about how badly they hated the Phoenicians, and the stories they told about Phoenicians sacrificing babies (which may have had basis in fact) to bring about a sense of moral outrage and justification.

How did the British get support at home for their empire?

What would happen if he came out and admitted that it's for economic purposes now? The humanitarian excuses have worn through.

[tabs]

Doesn't this sound similar to what I've been saying all along....this is the Real Politik....and is almost spot on as to the real reasons why we went into Irwreck...

[kach22i]

The article is right on....................

FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
FOLLOW THE MONEY
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[tabs]

BTW Wide if you had listened to what I have been saying for the past year or so you coulda said I allready know what is in that article...

[widebody911]

Tabs, go back and search for previous threads I'd (tried to) start on these subjects, and see how I got boo'd out of the room by the NeoCons.

[gaijinda]

You guys are really into this Marxist claptrap?

" Further, the US anticipates invading other states in the region, such as Iran or Saudi Arabia. That would make the war bill an annually recurring feature."

Give me a break.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by gaijinda
You guys are really into this Marxist claptrap?

" Further, the US anticipates invading other states in the region, such as Iran or Saudi Arabia. That would make the war bill an annually recurring feature."

Give me a break.

First off, how is that "Marxist," or that that today's entry on your Rush Limbaugh 'Liberal Denigration Word-of-the-Day' Calendar brought to you by Oxycontin

Secondly, I guess you've missed all the sabre-rattling at Iran and Syria, eh?

[tabs]

I said all along that the reason why Bushy went to war was not for oil, oils sake but to secure a steady, stable, and cheap price of oil hereafter known as a strategic fuel...to keep the global economy running smoothly...

Also I said that just take a look at the map of the ME and the location of Irwreck to the proximity of other nations with reserves of oil or with regimes that are troublesome to the USA....Iran and Syria...we also are on Irans other border ...afganistan...This is Geo Politics...

Now who benfits the most from having a nice steady etc supply of oil that keeps the Global economy lubricated....why the USA does with all it's business dealings throughout the world...

Now are we going to invade Iran or Syria or N Korea...I don't think Bush is up for invading anything after Irwreck...

The best solution to

Iran...jam their airwaves with commericals for US consumer goods....that will end the reign of the mullahs...the people will take them out and lynch them...eventually

Syria...rattle the saber at their doorstep..and have Israel go eyeball to eyeball witrh them...

N Korea...now there is a tougher nut to crack..the guy wants a cookie if he evens talks to you...The BEST way to get at N Korea is through the Chinese...the N Koreans may disrespect the US but they are AFRAID of the CHinese...cause they will show them no mercy and don't care what it takes to knock them off if push comes to shove..

Bush is exactly right about N Korea...spread the burden of dealing with them to their neighbors who have one he11 of alot to loose. China, Japan, Russia, S Korea and the US ...alll putting pressure on the little yellow B@stards...


If I were the USA I would start to really worry about France and Russia in paticular trying to get the Euro as the Reserve Currency for the world...that makes the French a major player again in world politics...and REALLY ENDS US HEGEMONY AS THE WORLD POWER...we might not even be #1 anymore...but the problem there is if we go down they go down because all our economies are so interdependent.

NOW HERE IS THE BIGGIE THAT I"VE BIN THINKING ABOUT...so far I don't have a full grasp of the concept....but the USA in of itself is in decline...but so are the other nation states...what we are seeing is the RISE of a MultiNational Corporate State....Where business and the flow of money and goods and services reigns supream... in the long run it will mean adecline in the living standard of Americans...while the living standards of other places comes up..a leveling process so to speak... like I said a Corporation doesn't care whether a guy in Topeka or in Timbucktu gets the job...all that matter is the bottom line...

[widebody911]

Originally posted by tabs
what we are seeing is the RISE of a MultiNational Corporate State....Where business and the flow of money and goods and services reigns supream

It's really the logical conclusion of a system where money buys political influence. Business contribute more than individual citizens, therefore have more clout. Eventually the lines blur between the will of the state and the will of the corporation.

A fundamental tenement of fascism.

[MFAFF]

On a side note about the British Empire....popular opinion was not sought.

The masses were told what to think and what to support by their 'elected' leaders who, at the time were by only landowners and men. All benefitted from expansionist policies and securing of cheap secure resources to full the Industries of the UK.

[widebody911]

The stakes have just been raised in the Euro/Dollar war:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/crisis/2003/1010oilpriceeuro.htm

[widebody911]

Originally posted by MFAFF
The masses were told what to think and what to support by their 'elected' leaders who

Elected by birthright, as it were.

[tabs]

Not necessarily Fascism and not quiet elected by birthright...

Your looking at more of a meritocracy...

[tabs]

You know Wide this whole thing is like the Titanic....and it's hit the berg...and there ain't enough room in the lifeboats for everybody...some people are just plain too stupid or have their heads so far in the sand that they can't be saved no matter what you do....So what you do is save yourself as best you can...for you that means taking a half step to the Right... and the rest well let them have their bread and circuses.

[gaijinda]

tabs man, no ethinc slurs. please. Illin' Kim my be a little wierd, but not all the people of Korea.. But you are right on Iran, Syria and North Korea.

Widebody, I suggest you do not waste your time reading modern Marxist thought, but take my word on it. But go back an re-read the original article in question. All the buzz-words are there. Boring!!

Lastly - dont worry about the Euro. Even the Brits have not bought into it.. the Europeans are facing a "perfect storm" very soon, as their lavish welfare states becoming unsustainable with their low birth rates.. NOT a part of the world to bet on..