New Camaro Pics

[Sarc]

A co-worker of mine has a buddy at GM that just sent these over. Not sure how legitimate they are, but thought the camarophiles on the board might like to see them.

I think they should have Chip Foose handle the design duties, but to each his own.

Sorry if these images have already circulated.

Paul

[}{arlequin]

I like it. Looks better than the new(retro) mustang. As far as the handling and dynamics, that may be another story.

[RickM]

Looks like a cross between Ford's GT and Ford's Mustang. There is Camaro influence at the raised quarter panel/flare though.

[CJFusco]

I like it... the rear wheel arch is VERY 1960s. it is obviously a retro design, and as such would probably be a sales flop

EVERY TIME an American company tries a retro design, it is a sales flop. People look at them and say, "wow, that's cool!" but don't buy them. Go right on down the list - Plymouth Prowler, Ford Thunderbird, Chevy SSR, Pontiac GTO (retro in concept). There seem to be two exceptions - the original Dodge Viper (maybe because it was first?) and the Ford GT (it is something special, and targets the Ferrari/Porsche set instead of the normal Ford buyer). The europeans do retro very well (Boxster, New Beetle, Mini) but America can't seem to pull it off for some reason.

We will have to wait and see how the new Mustang does... everyone I've talked to loves the design, so maybe it will be the car to buck the trend.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by CJFusco
I like it... the rear wheel arch is VERY 1960s. it is obviously a retro design, and as such would probably be a sales flop

I agree, but I think that the Camaro, like the Mustang has a built in audience of "town bullies" as my local paper put it that will seek it out when trading up. Who knows whether it will draw in new customers like our finicky type.

Certain of the posted photos make it look really cool. Others make it look really bad. The nose is too low.

The Mustang is really cool, but it needs the full GT (or equivalent) treatment. I saw a lesser version locally and it needs the extra driving lights for one.

[Sarc]

I think the Mustang is going to be HUGE. I'm already starting to see quite a few trolling around town (as well as the new C6 Vette).
The first picture in particular really does it for me, but the other angles I think need some development. I just hope they keep the beltline low, thus avoiding my biggest criticism of the Mustang as too thick from a side elevation.

I think that now American Manufacturers are trickling the retro theme down to the affordable performance demographic, they should see more success than their previous efforts.

One car that I think is going to be a smash is the new Pontiac Solstice. Had the pleasure of driving next to an undisguised pre-production version a few months ago. All black. Of course there's the chick car factor with that one, but with the top up it sure looked menacing.
Now if they offer a coupe version........

[}{arlequin]

it always turns on the same problem-- just a pretty outside, even a decent motor (supercharged v8 in the cobra) but as far as chassis development, it fails. No rigidity, same suspension (or just the design) that goes back to the early 80's... how can it be successful just on the looks?

Changing a look of a car is where the engineering stops, instead of having the look *reflect* the improvements underneath.

Make this new Mustang/Camaro etc. handle and feel like the 350Z or even an RX8 (for example), and you just might sway some from the import crowd.

[RickM]

IMO, certain retro cars will do better than others...by large margins. I think the Mustang will do well. Hopefully Ford learned from it's less than stellar reintro of the Thunderbird. They cheaped-out on it big time, hoping to sell the image. People want value for their money with performance and quality to back it up.

The Prowler and SSR don't fit into the Same catergory as they're more generic in nature. But look how the PT Cruiser has done...not too shabby in the sales dept.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

it's ok, I think the lines need to be a little straighter though. WIth GM's new small block, that thing is going to perform...

[MotoSook]

It'll never make it to the show room floor looking like that..too stylized. I think it's ugly and typical of Detroit designs. The rear quarters remind me of a Ferrari and the front is just plain ugly. They tried for a muscular look, but it ended looking like a home made ricer. The sides air dams look like someone just wrapped sheet metal around the rocker and took what ever form they ended up with.

I would love to have a retro Camaro, Detroit designs have always sucked, IMO. A retro Camaro doesn't have to be far from the original. Just smooth out the lines a bit and add some flares. Thin the doors out a bit, instead of the 200 lbs P.O.S. that is typical of Detroit cars, and they can gain interior space while making the vehicle compacted.

Sales numbers are good, Rick, but don't you find that the general public lacks taste? It kills me that Detroit can keep turning out ugly cars and the American buyers will still buy them. It almost seems to validate the designers' work.

I think I'll have to buy beat up 68 Camero and massage the metal into my own retro-Camaro, drop it on top of a Vette drivetrain (and a suspension without those stupid Vette leaf springs!) and then go do burn outs at the GM HQ parking lot....

[RickM]

Souk, You talking about the PT Cruiser? I agree with your styling remark. Some of the designs are too fadish and some simply not my taste. Those being the PT Cruiser, SSR, GTO....the list goes on. There are some hits, but they are few and far between.

FWIW, I think the Corvette is getting better with each generation. I'm actually starting to take a shine to it.

[}{arlequin]

so what's the coolest recent domestic car right now? I think the Neon Turbo is on my list. Not the prettiest but certainly effective. If it was only rear wheel drive... it's American, AND definitely a *type* of a muscle car, then why isn't it? Cheaper to build that way or is just for the safety vs. handling by the general public reasons? Any fool can just get into a bad handling, over powered Firebird/Camaro/Mustang so why not let them have a rwd neon?

[Sarc]

The PT Cruiser looks like a 50' era Fridge tipped over on it's side.
And performs like one as well.

[MotoSook]

Rick,

The PT was actually not a bad retro job for the mild car enthusiast who needed space and a low cost looker. Nesbitz (sic) was hot, until he got a big head. I think Detroit designs all suffer from lack of taste and identity.

I've always liked Vettes, just not sure I would buy a new one when I could build something better than GM can, given the funds for a one-off project. Then again, I'm not sure I would buy a new anything. The current Vette looks very good (but for heaven sakes...if anyone buys it, lower the thing! The ride height screws everything up), and the Vette line has always maintained some identity and taste (forgot the early 80's Vettes...no that pretty, but not too bad either, and what was that stupid wagon vette thing? )

For the amount of money Detroit spends on development, they could shed a 1/4 of it off to get some good engineers and designers (don't be offended you Detroit engineers). It's probably the way Detroit does business/operates that creates the environment which produces what we see coming out of there.

I wanted so badly to work for a big three company when I was in school, but after realizing how I would fit into the place, it wasn't an option for me. I'm not bitter at all, but imagine being a very small cog in a very large machine. When there are so many loose cogs in the large machine, the final product can turn out any which way, and there isn't anything any one person can do about it.

[azasadny]

I like it except for the front end...

[oldE]

Looks like a fiberglass styling exercise on a Pontiac Solstice platform. Yeah, it has elements of the 67-69 Camaros, but a blown 4-banger isn't going to do it. Also, people in this category want the 2+2. They need their friends around.
Now, if Chev could get their hands on a CTS-V platform, shorten it and drape it in some sheet metal which paid tribute to (but did not try to be) the '69, z-28, they might be going in the right direction. Hey, why not? After all, that's about where the "new" Mustang is coming from.
Les

[911pcars]

I agree with }{arlequin. Concept cars coming out of GM, Ford, et al, are usually not bastardized by the suits in the board room until they've had a chance at it. Yeah, if GM had half a brain, they would build the internals to reflect the "advanced" design they have drawn instead of a poseur. Is the market asking too much or do they just want a pretty face? We'll wait and see.

IMO, the front end around the headlights needs some aero work. It doesn't have to act like mini-barn doors to the wind does it? And it should weigh less than 3300 lbs. (doable with an aluminum small block, judicious use of alloy pieces and some innovative engineering). Hope springs eternal, but I won't hold my breathe.

Sherwood

[911boost]

Dave,

The new Mustang no longer uses the Fox Platform anymore. It shares the same platform as the Loncoln LS and one of the Jags. I would have liked to have seen the IRS standard, but I am guessing it will be saved for the SVT version again. Although 300 HP for right around $25,000 I think will result in very high sales.

Bill

[}{arlequin]

So to get the best stuff on the car you have to go for the best (most expensive) model, right? That's the problem, in my eyes. You will get the *look* but it won't behave how it looks, unless you spend the big bucks.

Every 350Z has the same suspension. They all handle just as well. For more $ you get brembo, a limited slip, lighter forged wheels etc. but they ALL feel tight. I haven't felt that even in the latest Cobra. The power was great! How can you argue w/ a supercharged V8 that puts out an honest 400? Everything else just wasn't completing the package, though. Too bad, b/c they could put out great performers...

[MotoSook]

I suspect the IRS was held back so the SVT group can make the chaching(!) from the spendy customers, while adding IRS might bump the regular stang one or two thousand, which might have been above the spending limit of the targeted customer according to some unrealistic market study. All the while, FoMoCo makes the excuse that the live axle is a "beefier" design aimed at the drag racers.

Lots of excuses coming out of Detroit...they need to do like the Japanese car makers do..beat the piss out of the project manager(s) and disgrace him/her in front of his/her home town if they fail to produce!