How embarrassing
 

Guess the world is right...Americans really ARE stupid!

I'm so embarrassed.

Me too. Can you believe so many people were bamboozled by orange Lurch?

Re: How embarrassing
 

Good. Does that mean you'll go now?

awww rick...threatened by me or something?

Take it easy folks... I hope this doesn't get ugly...

If anything, with a record turnout and heated debates over the candidates, Americans have expressed more interest in our government.

In the past, Americans were known for an apathetic attitude towards our government and world politics. This election, no matter what the outcome, has shown that Americans are involved, and they are more informed.

HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES?!?
-Z-man.

SmileWavy CoolChick. Thanks for your contributions.

This election proved that Fear Sells. We can look forward to four more years of fear and hype.

The draft will be revived under Bush Deux part deux ('doo-doo' for short)

This same country that elected Ronald Reagan by huge margins, also elected Bill Clinton by huge margins. This country also elected Jimmy Carter (loser) and Abraham Lincoln (best pres ever!). Through it all, we survived and prospered.

Cool, you just need to reload and don't get discouraged. The pendulum may indeed swing back your way. Only not if Hillary is involved. She's unelectable imo.

BTW, what is embarrassing is how pathetic the Democratic candidate was. Dems, stop nominating empty suit gigolos who's only accomplishments happened thirty years ago.

At least when the GOP nominated Bob Dole, he had an actual track record in the senate.

Also, this country wants some real solutions to the problems of health care, education and abortion. If you'all are going to let the feminists, teacher's unions and trail lawyers dictate chapter and verse, you're going to remain a minority party.

Rudy Giuliani in 2008! :)

Re: How embarrassing
 

There is the possibility that Americans are right and you ARE stupid. :D

All hail newbie cool_chick, the poster child for the form versus substance crowd...

Maybe Kerry will unveil his wonderful plans in the Senate so that we may all benefit now. He still has a job, just not working.

At least sheeple like you have four more years to criticise, whine, sharp shoot, develop passive, unrealistic, amorphous plans...with the underlying goal and resultant effect of accomplishing nothing and remaining blameless.

Craig...
Clinton got 43% in 1992 and 49% in 1996, not a majority in either case, and a pretty close thing in 1992.

I agree w/ your last statement, tho. As I frequently lament, the Dems love to cast invective at the GOP about how it's the party of special interests, but it is squarely in the pockets of the groups you mention, as well as being beholden to large corporate and/or individual interests. Dem or Rep, you've got to play the corporate game; it's that the Dem's are so busy hypocritically keening about the Rep's ties to big money.

Thom -
I know you're upset today, but you are especially irony proof. To claim that the GOP tried to instill "fear" and that it "didn't sell" and then to follow it up with the scare tactic the Dems used -- the draft -- is possibly your looniest moment... that I've seen. Yeah, fear doesn't sell, but it was the Dems peddling it this time 'round.

JP

EDIT -- oh ... I thought Cool Chick was embarrassed that she'd believe that others were "stupid" just b/c they disagreed with her, and was making a cathartic confession. Guess not ... just another run-of-the-mill petty crack from the party of the Big Thinkers. :D

Also, Americans are not stupid. Every year it's "how many Americans will win Nobel prizes this year?" rather than will we win any.

Smart people come here to live, work and study.

I see "smart and sophisticated" Euro's sitting in their cafes with their lattes and bad hygiene having a grand old time convincing themselves of their superiority to Americans. Meanwhile their socialist countries are collapsing under their own weight.

Good point JP, I guess I'm so totally focused on the Electroral college, I forgot about the popular vote those years. Busy 41 and Dole really didn't do that badly in the popular vote.

What do you mean? It did sell. Listen to any hardcore GWB fan and it's all about how Kerry would roll over for terrorists.

The bit about the draft is just an uncomfortable reality that the NeoCon apologists can't wrap your [small]minds[/small] around.

• There are a finite number of troops available
• The number available are proving insufficient for the task at hand.
• They're doing everything they can to prevent people from leaving the service, but that will only go so far.
• GWB wants to invade Iran, probably Syria, and who knows what else. Not having to worry about getting re-election has a way of removing the yoke of restraint.

Unless the troop fairy comes in the middle of the night and leaves a few divisions under GWB's pillow, he has no choice but to re-instate the draft. As clever as Rove is, it probably won't come from GWB's lips.

Sorry widebutty, we have more than enough military might to defeat any force on planet earth. I know you hate to hear that. What we need to do now is USE that force instead of sitting on our hands.http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/paro...on_learned.jpg

Mule:
I think you are jumping to conclusions. While there are things like Islamic terrorists, not all people who are of the Islamic religion are fanatical terroists.

I suppose if you live in Belfast, you'd have a pic with the caption, "Everything I ever needed to know about Christians I learned when they killed my family..."

Often, we see the world through our perspective, and need to take a step back.

Perhaps your picture should read, "Everything I ever needed to know about fanatical terrorists, I learned on 9-11."

-Z.

I'd like to personally thank all the 18-29 year olds that didn't bother to show up at the polls to vote for Kerry.:p

If you call "fear" putting forward Kerry's record of complacency on defense, so be it. The silence on his Senate record re: defense was deafening in the mainstream media.

The Democrats did try to scare the public with the specter of a draft, and obviously your [big]brain[/big] fell for it.

There are a finite number of troops available -- Deep Thought; however following that with "the number available are proving insufficient for the task at hand" is fallacious "logic" even for the [big]brainiac[/big] DNC spinmeisters.

Try to stretch your elastic brain around this -- "number available" is not necessarily equal to "number deployed", and in fact it's not. There are more available (w/o a draft) that can be deployed if and as necessary.

Similarly "proving insufficient" is a conclusion that conveniently ignores successes. It may be proving not to be as fast as you'd like (for whatever reasons...) but "insufficient" is your, not the logical, conclusion.

Points (and I use that term under advisement, in the loosest possible sense) 3 and 4 are more pinhead bombast and add nothing to even the non-Euclidian "logic" of your post.

You're out of your depth on the logic thing; it doesn't mix with hyperbolic, deceitful bile, it only serves to emphasize the bitter nature of it.

However, if you're that sure of your logic, give me $100 to $1 odds that there will be a military conscription draft instituted during the next four years. I'll put up $100 against your $10,000, and you can suggest an impartial party to hold the funds in escrow. Given your level of metaphysical certainty, unbounded by the strictures of logic (and it's the fundamentalist Christians that are loony... right) this is easy money for you. I'll even give you the unforeseeable stuff causing a draft -- China invading the US, Russia going after Alaska ... and all the stuff unrelated to W's vicious, unilateralist, unprovoked, warmongering.

Put your money where your bonghole is. :D

JP

Re: Re: How embarrassing
 

My thoughts and feelings exactly. Maybe now all the recent Pelican joiners that were thrown off of the other boards can go somewhere else with their vile and we can get back to reasoned discussions by caring members of this board.

That sound you hear drowning out the dems whining of the last year is the fat lady singing.

Finally!

Re: How embarrassing
 

Sounds like those grapes taste mighty sour.

:rolleyes: Riiiiight. The Dems will keep sponsoring bills to revive it and blame them on the Republicans.

Stop getting your news from MTV.

I hear that Senator Kerry is looking for some more medals to throw over the fence.

Re: Re: Re: How embarrassing
 

Re: Re: How embarrassing

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by thrown_hammer
There is the possibility that Americans are right and you ARE stupid.
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And I was trying to be nice. ;)

Sadly, it's a distortion. Would we expect less from the republicans?

The Bush campaign bases its claim mainly on Kerry's votes against overall Pentagon money bills in 1990, 1995 and 1996, but these were not votes against specific weapons. And in fact, Kerry voted for Pentagon authorization bills in 16 of the 19 years he's been in the Senate. So even by the Bush campaign's twisted logic, Kerry should -- on balance -- be called a supporter of the "vital" weapons, more so than an opponent.

It is true that when Kerry first ran for the Senate in 1984 he did call specifically for canceling the AH-64 Apache helicopter, but once elected he opposed mainly such strategic weapons as Trident nuclear missiles and space-based anti-ballistic systems. And Richard Cheney himself, who is now Vice President but who then was Secretary of Defense, also proposed canceling the Apache helicopter program five years after Kerry did. As Cheney told the House Armed Services Committee on Aug. 13, 1989:

Cheney: The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64; . . . I forced the Army to make choices. I said, "You can't have all three. We don't have the money for all three." So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out. That would save $1.6 billion in procurement and $200 million in spares over the next five years.

Two years later Cheney's Pentagon budget also proposed elimination of further production of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle as well. It was among 81 Pentagon programs targeted for termination, including the F-14 and F-16 aircraft. "Cheney decided the military already has enough of these weapons," the Boston Globe reported at the time.

Does that make Cheney an opponent of "weapons vital to winning the war on terror?" Of course not. But by the Bush campaign's logic, Cheney himself would be vulnerable to just such a charge, and so would Bush's father, who was president at the time.





I don't expect you to read this though......

Re: How embarrassing
 

Just the liberal Americans...and they don't seeem to be embarrassed by anything.

Ya, you're "proud"...I know.

No comment on my distortion post above, huh? Figures.

Re: How embarrassing
 

I know exactly how you feel..

if anyone asks, I'm from Canada.

do a search...we discussed that long before you started posting here...I have no new arguments and I am sure you don't either...another round would be ...tiring

true. pointless too.

i just hate hearing the distortions being perpetuated without one doing research to determine if these claims are valid.

Cool, careful about the mil machine funding - far more complex than many imagine. The AH-64 was formatable but true be known, MD's Long Bow would have suited the needs then and now much better if the original plans stuck (as would have the A10 which is another failed story). The Trident only made fiscal sense for Groton CT and Newport News VA, not much else. Fast attacks work better now that USSR is all but gone. The mil and aerospace funding questions that get brought to the floor have far reaching ramifacations for local and reagonal economies than you can imagine, but also the Sen knows the next programs being proposed, we, the public don't. In many, not all, they do the right thing for the right reasons. It is only years later that we marvel at the F117A, B2 and the F22/23. These allow you and me and all the others to be doing what we are doing right now!

Cool et al, don't put too much passion into a topic that is to be far more complex than your philosophies would ever dream.

lol. i'm a passionate person.

Why all the blame on solely Kerry?

Re: How embarrassing
 

Truly you don't believe this. "Stupid" to me would be either Kerry or Bush winning by a landslide because the opposing side didn't show up to vote.

If stupid still sticks as a criticism, we all should own up to it because of the ridiculous two-party system we still subscribe to.

But not in this election, no there was no stupidity - just strategy vs. no strategy (or a lack of strategy - Kerry - and ignoring a whole portion of the populace - again Kerry - which was stupid in and of itself).

I'm not a republican, I'm not a large subscriber to moral values of the Evangelical sense, either. But what I take as very interesting, and dare I say, refreshing about this election is how resolved Americans are.

These elections were a great learning lesson, IMO.

If 58% of eligible voters voted and bush allegedly won 51% he really only received 29.5% of the eligible voters.

some mandate

Ain't it a b1tch:)

The smilely face which someone drew on my sign, left me hope that not all Americans are stupid. The sign which I put my office door election day is a reminder that we are not alone.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1099592180.jpg

Re: Re: How embarrassing
 

Regretfully I must say that, with all due respect, if that's the way you feel, the door is wide open.

The grass is always greener on the other side and that means you most mow it more often...

If everyone voted, the results still would have been the same. Mandate or not, Bush will start pushing his agenda from day one, just like last time when there was not even a majority.

I voted and I stand by the results. Just because someone doesn't agree with me does not make them stupid. "I" am not America..."We" are America.