Poll: What kind of punishment.

[Zeke]

First, read this:

"LONG BEACH — Three teenage boys charged in connection with the weekend torture killings of two sharks and a ray at the Aquarium of the Pacific denied the criminal petition in Long Beach Superior Court's juvenile division Friday, and were ordered to return in December for another hearing.
A fourth boy, charged with one count each of commercial burglary and conspiracy to commit animal cruelty for allegedly accompanying the other three as they returned to the scene of the crimes, also denied responsibility.

The three main defendants, each 13-year-old sons of Cambodian immigrants, are facing the most serious charges, including multiple counts of commercial burglary, animal cruelty, vandalism and conspiracy to commit animal cruelty.

They face a sentence of nine years for the crimes, although their confinement will likely be far shorter, court officials said. One of the boys could face slightly more time because he has a prior criminal record, they said.

The case has enraged the community, which counts the aquarium among Long Beach's most loved assets. Activists have called on prosecutors to seek severe sentences for the boys, and the aquarium has fielded dozens of calls from residents wanting to help.

The three 13-year-olds are accused of entering the outdoor Shark Lagoon exhibit late Sunday night, dragging a 3-foot nurse shark from her touch pool, slamming her against the concrete and dragging her to some shrubs behind the aquarium to die. They also allegedly flung a 2-foot-long bamboo shark onto the lorikeet bird exhibit and pulled a cow-nosed ray from a touch tank before stabbing it and leaving it on the ground.

The fourth boy, who is 14 and also of Cambodian heritage, is charged with single counts of commercial burglary and conspiracy to commit animal cruelty, which carry a maximum sentence of three years and eight months, respectively, in juvenile cases. That youth was not present when the animals were abused, authorities have said, although he is accused of returning to the aquarium with other boys Monday night.

A defense attorney representing one of the boys said the four teenagers likely would accept plea agreements in exchange for shorter sentences. Police say the four boys have confessed to the crimes.

The prosecutor handling the case cautioned that she would accept nothing less than deserving punishments.

"We are taking this very seriously," Deputy District Attorney Sheila Callaghan said. "So if there is any type of agreement, it's going to be something that reflects the seriousness of the charges."

Juvenile sentences don't equate to confinement the way adult sentences do, she added. Because the goal of juvenile court is rehabilitation not just punishment judges craft sentences to fit the children involved. Often it includes time in a county camp or the California Youth Authority, but probation and counseling are also employed.

Whatever the sentence, Callaghan said, she wants the boys to meet with a "humane education counselor' as part of their rehabilitation.

"I would certainly hope that there would be some kind of intervention that would bring them to know the impact they had on these animals they killed and on this community," she said.

Callaghan has a special interest in the case.

The longtime aquarium supporter volunteers for animal rescue organizations and has served as a past president for the Seal Beach Animal Care Center.

"A case like this just went right to the very fiber of my being," she said. "It's ironic: Here are these helpless animals that are used to teach children, and then they were maimed and killed at the hands of children."

The boys, whose names are being kept confidential because they are minors, are due back before Judge Gibson Lee on Dec. 2."

From the Press Telegram Nov. 13, 2004

[Aurel]

Drop them in the middle of an aquarium filled with great whites and enjoy the show...

Aurel

[Joeaksa]

If they can be turned around it will take something strong and right away. Otherwise we will be reading about them in a few years after they are caught for shooting or torturing someone.

JoeA

[Hugh R]

Wow, you guys are rightly hard law and order. 5 out of 10 for deportation. Might not be able to, sons of immigrants, might be citizens. Clearly, they need severe intervention. They need a serious attitude adjustment though.

Aurel, I'm glad I can agree with you in spirit on something! Kids that can do that to animals aren't far away from doing that to other people.

[nostatic]

put them in the jellyfish tank first.

then cut their nuts off so they can't breed.

then deport them and their parents.

[Milu]

Nostatic certainly comes up with good ideas for a leftwing, antigun, liberal with an SC and a surfboard
Nice one Todd

[mikester]

They are all under age - I don't see why charges aren't brought against the parents as well.

[turbo6bar]

I agree with the harshest punishment, but I wonder what lies in the minds of these kids. Killing with no logical purpose(s) is beyond my pea-brain...

[speeder]

It is hard to imagine the inner workings of the mind of a torturer, whether the victims are animals or people. I put these "kids" in the same category as child molesters, ie. completely helpless victims and sick thrill being the only motivation......

[Shuie]

dip them in brown gravy and lock them in a room with a Wolverine whos high on angel dust

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Hugh R
Wow, you guys are rightly hard law and order. 5 out of 10 for deportation. Might not be able to, sons of immigrants, might be citizens. Clearly, they need severe intervention. They need a serious attitude adjustment though.

Aurel, I'm glad I can agree with you in spirit on something! Kids that can do that to animals aren't far away from doing that to other people.

You are correct. They are citizens and it would be difficult, if not impossible, to deport them. I put the 4th choice up there to gauge sentiment.

Without being redundant, let me recap what I said on another thread and what gave me the impetus to post this poll. There has to be some parental culpability. Some action needs to be directed at the parents. As far as deportation, entering this country for the purpose of establishing residency carries responsibility. If it can be established that the parents were lacking in supervision and guidance, then they should go.

As far as the kids, I would support a constitutional amendment that would provide the US Courts to the ability rescind citizenship to felons that became natural citizens through birth here on our soil to non-citizen immigrants upon conviction in state or municipal court.

So, even though the 4th choice is not viable, vote on your feelings.

[Staylo]

What Aurel said, but one at a time.

[mikester]

Originally posted by Zeke
You are correct. They are citizens and it would be difficult, if not impossible, to deport them. I put the 4th choice up there to gauge sentiment.

Without being redundant, let me recap what I said on another thread and what gave me the impetus to post this poll. There has to be some parental culpability. Some action needs to be directed at the parents. As far as deportation, entering this country for the purpose of establishing residency carries responsibility. If it can be established that the parents were lacking in supervision and guidance, then they should go.

As far as the kids, I would support a constitutional amendment that would provide the US Courts to the ability rescind citizenship to felons that became natural citizens through birth here on our soil to non-citizen immigrants upon conviction in state or municipal court.

So, even though the 4th choice is not viable, vote on your feelings.

I would NOT support such an initiative. On the other hand - those kids can be deported if their parents are not citizens regardless of their citizenship. If the parents are deported - the kids go with them according to my source at the INS.

Of course the ultimate goal here is not the clensing of our base of citizenship but that JUSTICE be done for the citizens of Long Beach.

[84porsche]

We keep making things too easy for kids and their parents to get away with things. To me it just comes down to parents not doing their job with raising their kids. These kids should be punished so that they learn that these things are wrong. One person I used to work with commited a juvenile crime and was sent to the fire camps for 6 months and he told me stories of how it was and now how important it was that he cleaned up his life.

I was just reading this article about the Florida police and their use of tazers on children. “The police could have handled this better,” said the boy’s mother, Kathy Rojas. “They did not have to shoot him.” - I would have said to her, maybe you could have handled raising your boy better and then the police would not have to be involved at all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6468373/?GT1=5809

[cstreit]

Coupla months sweeping up Gorilla and Elephant poop with Monetary renumeration should do the trick.

[jyl]

Remember those UC Santa Cruz frat boys who kidnapped the large ornamental koi "Midas" from a university pond, beat it to death with a beer bottle, cooked and ate it, all while videotaping themselves? They got 250 hours community service, 25-50 Alcholics Anonymous meetings, and a $500 fine. Without any particular show of remorse, as one of them said later all the "hoopla" was unwarranted as the victim was just a fish.

If you voted "hard time" and "deportation" for the Cambodian shark killers, I assume you would also vote "hard time" and something more for the UC Santa Cruz frat boys? Presumably jolly white frat boys shouldn't be treated more lightly than Cambodian immigrants, for similar crimes?

[nostatic]

I think all frat boys should have their balls cut off so they don't breed more little versions of themselves, but I digress...

Hey, maybe I'm starting to embrace my inner neocon. Well, probably not since most of the frats seem to be pretty right wing

I have to admit that I spent some time surfing the Glock site the other day...

[Isabo]

Originally posted by nostatic

I have to admit that I spent some time surfing the Glock site the other day...

That is great Get out your creditcard, buy and get down to the range. We want you over here on the darkside!

[tabs]

Naw punishmenet enough would be to have them come to this Board and let them listen to the Liberals whine about how Bush lied to them... within a short period of time they would be begging to be deported after serving hard time...

[john70t]

It`s certainly a stupid act of juvenile hooliganism, but put it in perspective.
Just to play the advocate....How different is the killing method described above different from those used everyday on fishing trawlers? Perhaps shark hunting is a traditional rite of passage in their local culture, such as lion killing is to Zulus, and this outrage is being generated by a few ignorant, ethnocentric individuals.
The human damages would be the cost of damaged landscaping, obtaining new sharks, breeding and releasing replacments and changes to stop copycats.

At the San Francisco Zoo a few years back two Koalas were stolen for a week or so by some teen who thought they`d make a good gift for his girlfriend. Amazing the parents never knew.