There is a huge amount of pressure in the scientific community to make brilliant new discoveries that support evolution. Nobody wants to be the scientist who comes out and says "You know guys, this 'missing link' looks a lot like an ape I saw on 'National Geographic' last week." Nobody wants to cut short their career by announcing that the Emperor is naked like a jaybird. Nobody wants to carry the stigma of being the guy who denounced the 2005 discovery of The Pothole Man (or whatever).

The other major pressure is internal. One source I read, some time ago, noted that anthropology is, in many ways, like ancestor worship. You devote your whole life to finding remnants of your ancient ancestors, travelling the world, studying other people's work, thinking wholeheartedly about possible histories and evolution paths. Then you find a bone fragment -- it must be the bone fragment you're looking for!

Dan

In graduate school I used to demonstrate evolution in the lab. It's easy to do. Never had anyone leave unconvinced. Nobody. I think we cling to the "theory" tag for political expediency.

While many 'religious' folk seem to offer such types of proof for their beliefs, it is really not necessary, IMHO.

Faith, which is the basis of my convictions, in and of itself is believing in something that has little or no proof. (My definition).

So while it may be great to be able to climb into Noah's ark, or hold the staff of Moses (not the PelicanParts Moses, but the ancient guy :D ), it is not necessary for me to experience these in order to still have faith in God.

In that sense, it is earier to accept creation vs. having to prove evolution. The start of my understanding of how this universe came to be is based on faith, which by definition requires no proof. Those to believe (which is just another word for faith, BTW) in evolution are compelled to offer proof of what they feel is how this big blue marble got the way it is.

Sorry for rambling, interesting discussion here.
-Zoltan.

"Heh heh.... heh he.....He said staff.....heh heh..."
You crack me up!

:)

Dragons or dinosaurs? Your choice.

I couldn't care less if I talk at a wall, except when the elected head of the military branch uses it's influence/threat to change all findings of leading scientists to fit into a 6,00 year old view of all existence.
Did God exist before existence? And for how long and why? And most importantly, how would you know?

Personally I'm agnostic because I believe humans are still young monkeys(we've had cars/electricity for what, a hundred years?).
So is God simply an organized form of energy, or is (he/she/it) a benevolent/omnipotent parent figure who's present every second wiping ones tears and butt? Don't know, don't care.

The Chinese mythology of Chi/energy and perhaps ESP can kinda be scientifically proven by the fact there's a voltage field around every brain current and visa-versa(electric eels for example)...Energy can be changed from electrical to chemical to kinetic to etc...
On the same note, supposedly there was a blind study which showed patients who were prayed for healed faster. Agnosticism doesn't dismiss anything.

All I know is that there are still numerous forms of energy and ways to use them still to be discovered in the future.
And we still sit in trees and howl :)

I just wish they had left Grandpa alone....he was resating nice and peacfully, he wasn't bothering anybody...and there they go digg9ing him up...can't they leave well enough alone...

And the Meek shall inherit the earth....I wonder if the Bees and Ants ccan be considered to be meek?

Speaking of God: I like the American Indaian belief that God is Everything around us, including us.

And blessed are the cheesemakers.....

hmmmmm

yummmmm

cheese

yes, blessed are they...

"Evolutionists" are all incorrect. And so are "creationists. Anyone drawing a broad conclusion from the data available today is leaping WAY WAY WAY beyond the facts. Both could be true. Perhaps neither are true. One thing's for sure. If you're leaping to a conclusion in this matter you're not alone. People have been making hasty conclusions based on data, for millenia.

Or......if you're scratching your head thinking this is interesting data, and you wonder how it all fits together, you're still not alone. For millenia, certain people have also successfully maintained open minds. These are the people who find the answers, by the way.

What if God created evolution? Since either side seemes ridiculously far fetched, let's just pick some points in the middle and create "crevolutionism"?

Does the debate on either side of the equation really matter...we as humans are here....now what are we going to do with ourselves and the place?

There is an opposite, but similar view called 'Scientific creationism.' This theory emphasizes scientific evidence for creation.

I'm still searching for answers to the important questions: "Who am I?" "How did I get here?" AND "Where in the world is my luggage?!?" :eek:

-Z.

Did the same experiements - took methane, water, ammonia heated to 45C in a flux set-up, put an elec arc across, in a few days tested the solution and found ammio acids - confirmed with IR, UV and Mass Spec. They weren't there before! That work was done years pror but repeated often.

Trick is - when did life really start and where? Real tough to get self-replicating molecules to assemble in an water or brine solution - actually almost impossable. It is a condenastion polymerization and those are tricky. So I don't think it started in the oceans. Did some research in grad school and taught a course in bio-genesis at a local CC - presented a theory that has yet to rebuked - that is - life started in a solid state situ - clay! Left the program before I could start any real synthesis, but many citations indicate that it is very feasable and much easier to get a sophisticated molecule synthesised in solid state with Ni and Cu present to act like a catalyst.

So maybe the creationists are correct in a way - maybe man was made from clay? Or at least the first "living" things.

That is indeed interesting. My tendency is to "believe" both theories at once. but again, all kinds of things may have happened. Who knows?

But it is important. Sure, we're here and we should accept that and move on. But the next question leads us back: "Who are we?"

Everyone knows humans were a bad experiment from the Greys tinkering our their DNA with that from the monkey to create ass backward humans as their off spring. The Earth Human is regarded as a retarded species in the universe. Thus the reason for our containment or out right quarantee to this planet, so our retarded genes and DNA do not spread to other populated planets in the Milky Way.

Jesus was merely a space alien and mankind is his retarded step child. In Alien 4 they had many clones in large glass jars that were bad cooking. We are just semi functional versions hell bent on destruction of nearly everything in our paths.

All these alleged links to missing links and apes is PC science. The real work done by the Air Force at underground locations who get to read classified files debriefed by the Greys on the origin of mankind. Reads nothing like the bible or evolution. We were genetically engineered, by God or by alien, we didn't evolve out of brown sludge, that's bull****.

Within 50-70 years humans will begin to modify our own DNA, to breed out most dieases. A hitler like society of only beautiful pure people with perfect skin, teeth, spelling, and atheletic skills will be created. No birth defects or retarded people will be made any more. At the sametime designer viruses designed only to kill ethnic groups will emerge from certain labs in the SW if they haven't already.

Awww jeeeze, did they close the OT on Renn again...?

I bet Jesus loves all the primates.;)
http://www.serlachiusartmuseum.fi/du...adonnapic2.jpghttp://www.serlachiusartmuseum.fi/du.../marakatti.jpg

Looks like Czech or something, can anyone read this stuff?

http://www.serlachiusartmuseum.fi/durer/madonna/

.fi ... isn't that Finland? I think the Czech Republic is .cz. I could be totally wrong, though, it's been a few years since I memorized the country list.

Dan

Uhm, just click on the "In English" button...then on the picture you'd like translated: http://www.serlachiusartmuseum.fi/durer/english/madonna/index.html