$1.5 trillion of...

[turbo6bar]

the $2.4 trillion Federal Budget is spent on Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, and other mandatory programs. That leaves $900B for everything else.

With those programs expected to grow even faster over the next decade, I understand why we're running such a large deficit.

I wish I had answers.

[Joeaksa]

The big problem started when we stopped putting Social Security funds in reserve to pay for those who would need it when they retired, and started using it to pay for the expense of running the country. How to get out of it is a big quagmire but it has to be done.

Almost every country in the world has the same problem now that the Baby Boomers are retiring...

JoeA

[legion]

Yes.

And the cost of health care continues to rise by double-digits each year because of expensive drugs and medical malpractice....

No wait, it's mostly because the 'Boomers are getting older.

My generation is so screwed.

[Joeaksa]

Legion,

Your generation would not be here without our being here first! The rest of the story is that you guys are everyone's future, as are your children.

Your generation is screwed only if you give up. America does not work that way, so we will find a way. First thing is to stop all the damm lawyers from the lawsuits with no basis that are driving our health costs up. I did Medivac for years and the costs of a simple bandage has risen for no reason because of product liability. We gotta get it under control before it eats us alive.

JoeA

[gaijinda]

Take the average lifespan of men and women. Add up and divide by two. Deduct 10 years. Welcome to the new age to start collecting social security.

Whats with these healthy 62 years olds sitting around the pool collecting checks from the feds for the next 20 -30 years??

What are we France? Get a job, man.

[legion]

I was being slightly facetious.

I was just trying to make the point that the lawsuits are a major problem, but not the only problem. We can fix the tort system and the prescription drug business; we can't do anything about the average age of a person living in this country going up (which is causing both a healthcare problem and a social security problem).

Seriously though, my friends know not to mention lawyers or lawsuits around me because I'm apt to launch into an anti-plaintiff's attorney rant.

There is no easy solution to the Social Security problem, but as I see it, these are the alternatives:

1)Do nothing. I think this would turn even the successful of my generation into the working poor as they struggle to pay the taxes needed to support the lifestyles of the retired 'Boomers. (This is where the "My generation is so screwed" comment came from...)

2)Allow people to manage their own Social Security contributions. This is the plan currently being thrown out by the President. Someone who knows how to manage money might do well with this plan. Someone who is always trying to strike it rich (and taking on huge amounts or risk without realizing it) would probably end up worse off. Either way, this takes money away from current and soon-to-be retirees in order to give it back to those whose retirement will be further off.

3)End the practice of retirement. You don't work today, you don't eat today. This would eliminate the need for Social Security and allow my generation to spend, spend, spend without a care. It's also what no one wants.

What I think will happen is more or less a combination of the three things I presented above. The retirement age will go up (kinda option 3), people will still have to pay into traditional Social Security for the time being, but my generation will probably be allowed to take individual ownership of some of that money and that will be all that we will get for our retirement (in addition to 401ks, pensions, IRAs, etc...)

[cool_chick]

Well I have to tell you, my mom has such bad arthritis, she has to walk with a cane and is in constant pain. She can't stand for very long either. I can't imagine her being able to work.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily the government's job, I just think it's naive to think that we can end the practice of retirement and expect all to be physically able to fend for themselves.

[Joeaksa]

Legion,

Agree with most of it but #3 will not work. Sorry but after you pass 35 or so the body starts showing signs that its getting older and as CC said above we just cannot and do not want to work forever.

That said, as long as I can I will work because my work is fun and do not want to retire. Am lucky as I raced long distance bikes as a kid. The 200 mile races left me in fairly good condition as I got older, but you have to maintain it. There is nothing that you can do about arthritis and several other things that occur as you age naturally, so thats why we plan on retiring and enjoying the "fruits of life!"

Look ahead and start putting money into your 401k's and get some "cushion" started now. It adds up quickly and really makes the difference when you get a few years under your belt.

Joe A

[RickM]

...and Canada projects another surplus year: http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/11/16/budgetupdate_041116.html

Quote:

"Looking ahead, Goodale said Ottawa expects future surpluses to be:

$500 million in 2005-06.
$900 million in 2006-07.
$3.2 billion in 2007-08.
$7.5 billion in 2008-09.
$11.5 billion in 2009-10."

[BigD9146gt]

I think Joes got the answer, save it yourself. Paying into a system thats drowning itself is stupid. If i wanted to do that i would move to a dictator country. I think the Government needs to just pay off those who have put what they have into the stupid SS system, and those who are up-and-comming should just fend for themselves.

Granted that if I don't pay into SS, then how do retired folks get money? Its fairly simple. Stop sending un-backed money that the researves are printing to other countries, give it to the retired and call it even. Our government needs to stand up and say "our bad", and deal with the decisions that got them this far. putting it off is only going to make it worse.

[Joeaksa]

Ending a lot of the "pork barrel" spending would help a lot.

Personally I am fairly good with funds and should not have a problem retiring whenever I wish, but many people are not and believe that there needs to be some sort of "oversight" on the self retirement funds if a person totally drops out of the SS system. If we do not keep an eye on them now, we may have to pay to prop them up later.

Joe

[gaijinda]

I think it will transmutate into a 2 tier system. There will always be a rock-bottom safety net. But with longer lifespans, it has become a income redistribution program. Not good.

[cegerer]

There really needs to be "means testing" for anyone applying for SS. There are many of us who won't need it and - as a principle - don't want it in any way, shape or form. Why am I being forced to contribute to a fund that distributes money to hundreds of thousands of people who simply don't need financial assistance while at the same time being prevented from investing that money in my own investments?

Does somebody with a $500,000 or $1 million nest egg really need a couple of thousands bucks each month from the government? Some would answer that they've "paid into the system" and deserve their money back. That's what the government would like you to believe, so maybe you do. But you're not investing in anything. They're simply taking YOUR money and GIVING it to someone else. When it's your turn, they'll simply take money from somebody else to give to you. You have no SS retirement account, there's no fund, there's no money waiting for you. It's all a big scam predicated on the ability of future workers to fork over their money when it's your turn. I want out!

[legion]

Social Security is just a big, government-run pyramid scheme. Like all pyramid schemes, it will eventually collapse leaving the most recent contributors with the bill.

[tabs]

Welcome to OLD AGE....LOL

As I expalined to Cool one....figure out the return if you put your SS contribution into an interest bearing account and compound it for 45 years...quiet a tidy sum...

As for Attorneys and Law Suits just you wait ...Legion until one of those bright MD's makes a mistake on you...and see if the settlement is too much....

Plainly said our government should NEVER have been allowed to put SS funds into the General Account....The School Teachers Union won't allow their pension fund to be included into the General Fund....and they are one of the largest supporters of the TAX and Spend Democratic Party....So much for Social Welfare....

I don't care about Means Testing...if I put MY MONEY into something then I want the payout at the end of the day....otherwise the government shoulda let me outa the system....

[cool_chick]

Oh Tabs, I had agreed with you then. My only fear is exactly what joe said:

Personally I am fairly good with funds and should not have a problem retiring whenever I wish, but many people are not and believe that there needs to be some sort of "oversight" on the self retirement funds if a person totally drops out of the SS system. If we do not keep an eye on them now, we may have to pay to prop them up later.

Some oversight needs to be put in place. Then I will be 100% behind the plan.

[tabs]

Well that stands to reason that there needs to be oversight....just as a persons SS contribution is taken out weekly so would be the contribution to a self directed SS system...the person never sees the money only the value of the account....and there would be strict limitations on the things one could invest in...and that person could never touch the money until the system allows them too.

I may have just fallen off the turnip truck...but that doesn't mean I heit my head when I did.....

[Reg]

The big problem started when we stopped putting Social Security funds in reserve to pay for those who would need it when they retired, and started using it to pay for the expense of running the country.

Plainly said our government should NEVER have been allowed to put SS funds into the General Account....The School Teachers Union won't allow their pension fund to be included into the General Fund

That is the problem. Getting out of war mode to look at domestic issues would be my advise.

Curt's logic is the way it should be as far as claiming it but I can understand why someone like Tabs would want to collect after paying in. Bottom line is that these funds should go to the people in need, in real need. The governments should be able to figure that one out.

[tabs]

Well Reg the USA has bin on a Guns and Butter binge since the end of WW2......

[Joeaksa]

Curt,

My issue with the SS now is that I am not planning on needing the funds that I paid into the system to retire but you know I am just Scottish enough that its MY money and I want back and with interest would be nice as well!

The oversight needed is to keep the ones who do not know how to work with money from squandering it and making us have to fund it later. Without oversight I would not agree to it, but with it could find a middle ground and work it out.

I lived in Germany around 10 years and paid enormous amounts of money into their retirement system. Now they are trying to refuse to pay it back to me in a lump sum or monthly when I retire. They are in worse shape than the US is when looking to the next 20 years and retirees.

Joe A