MUslims believe that Jesus was a liar & a fraud. They say he was not the son of God. He was not crucified. He did not rise on the third day and his description of salvation is a lie. Now, regardless of your own beliefs regarding those statements, even Stevie Wonder can see that they do not "believe in Jesus" in any fashin that would make sense to a Christian.

As for your other statements, the only one that I remember as being touted by the administration was that Iraq had wmd's. I assume the rest to be figments of your immagination (or maybe statements by Dan Blather).

As for your statement about "learning' in college, I was referring to those such as yourself that in addition to "learning," were indoctrinated with a leftist ideology. Based on your statements that would be hard to disprove.

Brilliant insults, Mule. Thanks so much for your productive and informed contributions.....where applicable.

I hope TW does not even respond.

In the meantime, I'd suggest you do a little reading. For example, look into the number and severity of terrorist attacks before 9/11 and after. Perhaps you should have considered doing this before railing on TW for providing this information.

Another area you might consider researching, is your beliefs about Islam. Your beliefs are wacky, to say the least.

So, when you attempt to convince people that folks like TW are ignorant, and that you are informed....ummmm.....you might want to impress them with CORRECT information, as opposed to INCORRECT information.

But then, that would be out of character for you, now wouldn't it?

I have researched on both counts. Terrorism against Americans from 9/12 back far exceeds any since. IF you disagree, provide some evidence oh man of steel. Same goes for the comments on islam, evidence please, other than your infallible opinion that is. I'll be waiting for you "proof."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37709

http://www.islamfortoday.com/wolfe2.htm

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/8132562.htm?1c

I can't find any Muslims claiming that "Jesus is a liar and a fraud".

"Jesus is mentioned 27 times in the Quran, more than six times as much as Muhammad himself, and he is mentioned even more times in the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. In fact, salvation for Muslims necessarily includes belief in Jesus, as outlined by this prophetic saying: "If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Slave and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Slave and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise."

Muslims, including this one, love Jesus with all of their hearts, minds and souls. Islam is not anti-Christian by nature. No devout Muslim would ever fathom attacking the person of Jesus as many who claim to be devout Christians have viciously and repeatedly attacked the person of Muhammad. In fact, last year American Muslims strongly criticized as "tasteless and insensitive" a television commercial promoting professional wrestling that showed "Jesus" gambling with the devil in a sports bar. In addition, Muslims were among the many who protested the portrayal of Jesus in the film "The Last Temptation of Christ." "

They don't say outright that he is a liar & a fraud but they do say he was not the son of God. He was not crucified. He did not rise on the third day and his description of salvation is a lie.

So tell me then, if a Christian "believes" in Christ similarly, what the hell does he believe?

err.... he would not be a Christian', he would be Muslim. How does that augment your arguement that Muslims believe Jesus is a fraud & a liar?

Ahhh, there's the doubletalk. So Muslims "believe' in Jesus, they just think his teachings are all lies.

Quote:
"How does that augment your arguement that Muslims believe Jesus is a fraud & a liar?"

Simply. Christians believe his teachings are true, the word of God. Muslims believe his teachings are lies. If Jesus managed to defraud hundreds of millions of people that his teachings are "the word of God," and that is in your opinion a lie, how can he be anything but a liar & a fraud?

err... you're arguing that because I think it is a lie that Jesus set out to defraud millions of people, then Jesus must be a fraudulent liar? I honestly don't follow that logic at all.

Muslims think Jesus' teachings are all true- I'm pretty sure there are tons of them in the Quran, and since they believe in him as a prophet how would his teachings be anything other than the word of God? If they see his teachings as lies, and not the word of God why would he be a prophet???

Quote:
"Muslims think Jesus' teachings are all true- I'm pretty sure there are tons of them in the Quran, and since they believe in him as a prophet how would his teachings be anything other than the word of God?"

I'm sorry you are so confused.
Ask your mullah the following:
1. Is Jesus the son of God?
2. Was he crucified?
3. Did he rise from the dead?
4. Did he perform miracles?
5. Can someone find salvation through him?

Get back with me then & we can talk about what is instead of what you think might be. No hard feelings.

I would imagine that a Muslim would answer based on the teachings presented in the Kuran. As a Christian would answer based on the teachings in the Bible.

I can't imagine why any Muslim would believe that Jesus is a liar & a fraud, given that their religion reveres him as a prophet.

Where are all these Muslims denouncing Jesus as a liar? There are alot of Muslims, so you shouldn't have much trouble finding some.

All you are offering is proof that they are not Christian. Muslims are not Christian. How does that prove they think that Christ is a liar?

OK we'll try this again.

Jesus said he was the son of God. He also said someone must go through him to get to heaven.

One can't say that teachings are lies without implying the the teacher is a liar.

Muslims don't say Jesus is a liar word for word. They do say his teachings are lies. They do say that the concept of Christianity is fraudulent. Is the teacher of lies a liar? Is the founder of a fraudulent religion a fraud?

What has puzzled me is how Muslims can on one hand say they respect Jesus as a prophet & on the other hand condemn his teachings & religion. This is but one of the many dichotomies of Islam. Some scholars say that the introduction of Judeo-Christian concepts into Islam were an attempt by Mohammed to convert Jews & Christians after his own people had rejected his fledgeling religion.

Facts and logic have never deterred Mule from a good rant.

Very entertaining!!!

Your post implies that fact & logic is not on my side in this debate. If that is correct please provide some fact & logic to dispute my position. I'm no religious fanatic with an ax to grind. I'm also not making this up. Ubiq was at least trying to hold a sensible discussion as opposed to the other uninformed, self appointed geniuses whose comments amounted to "I don't know jack *****, but you're wrong."

Mule's rules:

1. Choose a topic that is somewhat controversial

2. Load it down with some facts, some conjecture and a lot of personal opinion, claim it is all true

3. Watch suckers bite into the "show me where I am wrong" argument

4. Enjoy the results

5. Repeat as necessary to bolster ego.

All in fun, Mule. Sorry, won't bite. I never enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Cheers!!

Some red v blue from the Buch / Gore election:

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,
Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent
Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:
Gore=127 million
Bush=143 million
Square miles of land won by:
Gore=580,000
Bush=2,2427,000
States won by:
Gore=19
Bush=29
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore=13.2
Bush=2.1
Professor Olson adds:
"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned
by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory
encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living
off government welfare..."

Moneyguy said:
"All in fun, Mule. Sorry, won't bite. I never enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

What hillarity, original too. If you believe the rest of your post, especially the part about what I said being opinion & conjecture, there can only be 2 reasons for you not pointing out my errors. 1. you are afflected with what is referred to down in South Louisiana as alligator mouth, hummingbird a$$. 2. your statement about opinion & conjecture refers to your attempt to obfuscate your own lack of knowledge.

Good post Paul. Remember, the politician who robs Peter to pay Paul can always rely on the support of Paul.

LOL!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

Typical.

Mule, my friend, you are so predictable.

But, 'tis the season for forgiveness and understanding.

You are forgiven.

"Professor" Olsen has an interesting perspective.

Ummm, wasn't it right here on the Pelicanparts OT forum where I learned that college professors (these are the guys with Ph.D degrees, thought I do not see this information in "Professor" Olsen's title) are people who don't know anything. The reason I remember this is because this is not the kind of thing that's easy to forget. The notion that all the world's reporters are uninformed, the professors are not godo thinkers and the rest of the world (Europe, places like that) is similarly situated. And by way of contrast, Dubya, who seems to have reading and speech disabilities, has all this stuff figured out.

So, after this information, I'm not sure how someone would expect me to receive "professor" Olsen's remarks.

Actually moneyguy (Mr. Predictable), I have no need or desire for your forgiveness. But I can respect your desire to remain silent & be thought a fool than to open one's mouth & remove all doubt.