the Bible as a literal document

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I was organizing parts this morning when the following dawned on me:

God creates Adam and Eve and they have a personal relationship with God. They piss him off (damn Eve!) and out they go into the real world. Now at most they are pretty steamed about that, but how could they possibiy conceive of another deity to pray to? Or create many gods, or create the concept of religion, IF all they know is their friend, God who talked with them?

But forget all that, since God flooded the earth allowing Noah to ride out the storm.

Now if your Noah and family, you have a few personal conversations with God and you see what he can do when he's not really pleased with how things are going in the world, do you really go out and start creating other gods, religions, etc.?

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Just a thought.

BTW, I'm a Jesus freak, or really just a fan of the Gospels who sees no real need for religion.

[widebody911]

So adam and eve are the only two people god creates; they get down to business and crank out a few kids, but without any any fresh additions to the gene pool, within 2 generations, all you have are a bunch of incestous inbreds.

Now I understand why the South is so religious.

[Moneyguy1]

Even some biblical experts reject the idea that Adam and Eve were the first people; opting for the concept they were the first recorded people.

I think parts of the Bible are factual, some alliterative, and some simply there as object lessons.

[widebody911]

Perhaps, MoneyGuy, but that is outside the parameters of the Bible as a literal document

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by widebody911
So adam and eve are the only two people god creates; they get down to business and crank out a few kids, but without any any fresh additions to the gene pool, within 2 generations, all you have are a bunch of incestous inbreds.

Now I understand why the South is so religious.

OK, coffee came out of my nose on this one, thanks Thom!

Bob, I'm with you on object lessons, and I think the Bible is a very important document but should not be taken literally, and certainly some parts of should be wholly removed, like all of the Letters.

My original post just popped into my brain, I am hoping some true believers add their opinion.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

all organized religions have common threads based on feeding minds and controlling the masses. Ancient Rome was the most diversified and tolerant of another's beliefs. A society needs more than one religion to maintain a balance/ to prevent religious extreme. Any intolerant religion is a prob waiting to happen. A market place for religion is societial efficent imo.

all of above is a prejudical rant.

[cool_chick]

Speaking of incest, after Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt, Lot and his daughters went up to the mountain. They got their dad dad drunk to have sex with him, one daughter the first night,....got him drunk again, and the other daughter had sex with him the second night.

Shutters.....

[Isabo]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Speaking of incest, after Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt, Lot and his daughters went up to the mountain. They got their dad dad drunk to have sex with him, one daughter the first night,....got him drunk again, and the other daughter had sex with him the second night.

Shutters.....

I must have been smoking in the girls' toilets when the nun taking the religious knowledge class was covering that one

[johnco]

then there's Noahs son and grandson giving him some butt lovin after he passes out from drinking wine (according to the History Channel story). this is starting to sound like something out of California

[Moneyguy1]

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly......

[A Quiet Boom]

I suppose if you follow the story of Adam and Eve literally, then it's OK to have sex outside marriage, and even with your sister/brother. Think about it for a minute, if these where the first two people and they had children then those children has to sleep with each other or their mother and father to continue the species. None of these people went to church to be married either. The whole point of religion is to give us a moral compass as to what is right and what is wrong, anyone who takes it farther than that is an extremist in some form or another. I fell away from the church during my 20's and early 30's but now realize it's important to take my daughter to church so she can learn from religion, when she gets to be an adult she can decide whether to be religious or not but she will have a moral foundation, at least a better one than my wife an I can give on our own.

[widebody911]

You missed all kinds of good stuff, Isabo!

[Jeff Higgins]

Nowhere does the Bible say Adam and Eve were the only people on Earth at the time. I follows their story, yes, but it does not imply they are alone on Earth. The Bible mentions Cain and Able, but nowhere does it say they were the only offspring of Adam and Eve. God did not create just two of every living thing and let them procreate from there; He did not do this with any of the animals, fish, plants, etc., much less mankind.

Shaun, the other gods imagined by mankind came much later than His personal contact with mankind. The knowledge of God was diluted by the passage of time and the increase in population. It is very difficult for mankind to accurately pass down stories from generation to generation. How many of us today can relate accurate stories of our own forebearers even just a few generations ago? What can any of you tell me about your own great grandparents, much less several generations back from them?

We do have the luxury of written history of our culture and civilization, but even that only goes back so far before it gets very hazy on any but the most general level. Imagine if most of it was passed word-of-mouth. You have to remember that at the time of the earliest Old Testament stories, the written word was not known. The stories survived as oral traditions passed through the generations. Some preserved it accurately, with the help of God, and others bungled it horribly or forgot it altogether through laziness, ignorance, lack of faith, or any combination of these.

Christians believe the Bible is the word of God. Some believe that it is in its entirety, every last word in it; some believe it only contains His word, liberally interspersed with the authors' own thoughts. It boils down to this: if you believe there is a God that created us, you probably also believe He would like to communicate with us and lay down some expectations. If you believe that He has, it is not much of a stretch to believe that He might also be capable of preserving what He said to us down through the generations. Certainly more capable than we are of preserving our own works. So while I have little faith in mankind's ability to keep such stories straight for very long, I do believe that God is more than capable, working through men down through the generations, of preserving His word among those interested enough to pay attention.

Just one quick edit concerning marriage that came to mind after re-reading some other posts. Neither the Bible, nor God, condone sex outside of marriage. God considers a couple "married" by His standards when they have joined each other sexually. All of our legal requirements that define "marriage", and the elaborate ceremonies we like to have are merely things mankind has come up with on their own.

[A Quiet Boom]

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins

.....God considers a couple "married" by His standards when they have joined each other sexually....

Damn I've got a lot of wives! LOL

[Rob Channell]

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
if you believe there is a God that created us, you probably also believe He would like to communicate with us and lay down some expectations. If you believe that He has, it is not much of a stretch to believe that He might also be capable of preserving what He said to us down through the generations. Certainly more capable than we are of preserving our own works. So while I have little faith in mankind's ability to keep such stories straight for very long, I do believe that God is more than capable, working through men down through the generations, of preserving His word among those interested enough to pay attention.

Some good points IMO and I like the above section. If you've ever played the game of telling a verbal story to someone and having them retell it until it gets back to where it started you see how quickly stories become diluted.

This happens in the written word as well. Already our history books are being rewritten from when I was in school to downplay the efforts of George Washington as the father of our country. The kids now learn more about George Washington Carver than they do George Washington. Books are changing history in less than a generation.

The Bible, on the other hand has been compiled from scrolls created, copied, and handed down over thousands of years yet remains more consistent. Some copies of the scrolls are over a thousand years different in age and contain the same message. There are typos and misspellings in different copies, but no changes in message or doctrine. Pretty entertaining that this is the only message that's been maintained so well over that time period. The message is occasionally retranslated as our comprehension of the early languages improves with the increase in period materials to use for comparative purposes.

You either believe it or you don't. I believe it and will tell you so. You have the right to believe whatever you want. If you want to believe that the tendency for matter to decrease in entropy was reveresed to create the universe WITHOUT an outside force then that is your right.

Rob

[Don 944 LA]

Just like " The world is flat " maybe the Bibles need a re-write ????

[bryanthompson]

Originally posted by johnco
then there's Noahs son and grandson giving him some butt lovin after he passes out from drinking wine (according to the History Channel story). this is starting to sound like something out of California

I was just thinking about something along these lines yesterday. What if, and this is a big what if, someone made a TV series from the Bible? It wouldn't have to be all preachy or anything... in fact, I think it'd come off more like the later years of Friends or any other soap operaish show. The action is definitely racey enough for Hollywood, as has been pointed out in other posts.

If they did it, stuck to the story, and didn't get too preachy, I think it could work. Maybe.

[bryanthompson]

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom
Damn I've got a lot of wives! LOL

No, "left" and "right" don't really count

[Isabo]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
No, "left" and "right" don't really count

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
I was just thinking about something along these lines yesterday. What if, and this is a big what if, someone made a TV series from the Bible? It wouldn't have to be all preachy or anything... in fact, I think it'd come off more like the later years of Friends or any other soap operaish show. The action is definitely racey enough for Hollywood, as has been pointed out in other posts.

If they did it, stuck to the story, and didn't get too preachy, I think it could work. Maybe.

Bryan, I've thought of this too, but it would never work. There's way too much treachery and evil by the good guys in the Old Testament, they could never be portrayed sympathetically enough.

Examples: Jacob buys Esau's birthright through extortion and then puts on a goat skin to trick his fathering Isaac into giving him Esau's rightful blessing.

David fancies a particularly hot young Israelite, but she's married, so he has her husband killed in battle.

When angels visit Lot in Sodom (commentary: great father figure!!!):
Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally."

6So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7and said, "Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof."

So you can't really blame them for this passage:
The Descendants of Lot
30Then Lot went up out of Zoar and dwelt in the mountains, and his two daughters were with him; for he was afraid to dwell in Zoar. And he and his two daughters dwelt in a cave. 31Now the firstborn said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man on the earth to come in to us as is the custom of all the earth. 32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father." 33So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

34It happened on the next day that the firstborn said to the younger, "Indeed I lay with my father last night; let us make him drink wine tonight also, and you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father." 35Then they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

36Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father. 37The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab; he is the father of the Moabites to this day. 38And the younger, she also bore a son and called his name Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the people of Ammon to this day.


and so on. Why is it that all of the heroes of the Old Testament are the most vile?