You guys are reading me all wrong. I am not arguing the existance of God or gods or which religion is right or wrong. I am saying you are being very impolite those those who do believe by mocking them and their religion. You know (most)Christians don't believe God "smote" Indonesia, but you ask the question in the assumed affirmative to make them look silly. Like I said, if you get your jollies from this I think it makes you pretty small people.

Thank you Victor, so much.


Lendaddy, not all. It goes to the very nature of god, and what we believe (in the collective) beleive god to be.

In the face of disaster, how can anyone beive a benevolent god exists? Surely not in the context of the dogma that the loon who statred this thread originally posted.

Dont sweat it, Lendaddy, you are off the hook. Greater minds than ours are grappling with this question at the moment, and not doing very well it either.

BTW, I'd be interested in your take on the article i posted in the OT regarding "conservatism"

cheers
Stuart

I will take a shot at answering the question of why would God have allowed this tsunami to take so many lives. First, one should look at death not like a punishment, but a passage in a different world, which may very well be a much better world than the departing souls are leaving. So, I would not worry too much for those who are gone.

It is evidently more difficult for those whose lives have been spared, because they must feel a sense of immense loss and stress.
It is also difficult for all of us who are witnessing these events, which are the second time a large number of souls leave this earth plane at the same time, the first time being 9/11.
I beleive that God allowed all this to happen for a purpose, which we cannot fully comprehend yet. I feel it has to do with revealing the goodness in the world, the compassion and solidarity that can exist among human beings. A similar outpouring occured after 9/11, but the whole thing turned into a war, which is going against God purpose, unlike what GW would like to make everyone beleive.
So, this time, there is no one to blame except mother nature and God, so no war to wage. Just express goodness, because there is no ennemy or terrorist who was responsible for this disaster. Maybe we should be a little less afraid of fictional terrorism, and a little more aware of how upset the Earth is, and what earth changes are going on right now.

At ant rate, those events are not a punishment, but an opportunity for change, and I feel like there is much more change to come.

Aurel

You where doing OK untill this bit.

You have to be kidding. 46,000 dead and entire city destroyed on Dec 26 2003. Bam, Iran.

Africa, any day of the year.

9/11, while tragic, killed 3000 and was most definately an act of malevolent man.

Some perspective, please.

stuart

Correct, I forgot about Bam. That fits very well in the scheme of souls departing en mass, all at the same time. Africa is also many deaths, but more spread over time. I see a progression since 9/11: 3,000 then 46,000 then 150,000...

All events are acts of God, including 9/11. The man was only the instrument, and God allowed the towers to collapse, didn`t he ?

He also allowed UBL to be born, right ?

Evidently, God must have known what UBL was up to.
Why would he let him do that ?

We must admit that everything that has hapened and wil happen is part of his plan.

Aurel

doesn't anyone remember what god said to Noah after he landed on Ararat???

See, this is what Im talking about. This nonsense need not be tolerated.

Do you think mass loss of life was invented in Sep 2001?

What progression do you see, pray? What divine purpose do you distill?

If god loves us, why does he keep killing us in ever increasing numbers?

God sent OBL to blow up the towers? Well, he would certainly agree with you. That makes you and he of like mind, doesnt it?

You are a flaming idiot, and your deluded whacko opinion- on this subject- is good for nothing but derision. Its time we reality-based knuckleheads just stopped humouring dolts like you.

cheers

Stuart

"Noah, don't forget to wipe your sandals off, 'coz it's awful muddy out there."













"We ran aground on what??? Who's driving this wooden box, anyway?!? Noah, you're fired!!!"










"Who put that mountain there! Have that removed at once!!!"

acts of God
 

Aurel: by saying all events are acts of God, you are saying that God is the author of evil. God has a permissive will that allows man to go about his(man's) evil ways for a time. God is not in the business of destoying his children.

Re: acts of God
 

Then why did he send, or fail to stop, or allow to occur, the tsunami?

Stuart

C'mon Stu, there's no need for that.

Oh boy this is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. Hang about while I get me some marshmallows.

sheesh! the covenant, m'boy. the covenant :D

Well, turbocarrera, and I say this quite dispassionately- there sort of is. What Aurel posted is hokum, voodoo, claptrap, idiocy. That he may believe it doesnt make it any less so. There is no rational basis for anything he said. Nothing.

Pluto is made of jelly.

Its time we started calling it for what it is.

cheers stuart

fail to stop etc
 

Like I said, God has a permissive will. He isn't moving man and nature around like pieces on a huge chess board. The earth is an active place that has been doing things like tsunamis' since it's beginning. We have been here for a short time and the population has exploded in that time so the interaction between people and nature will become more notiable.Apparently these natural upheavals have been going on since the beginning but for a great part of that time, nobody was here to notice. The Krakatoa explosion in the 1860's was a much greater natural event except there were far fewer people to impact.

Re: fail to stop etc
 

What do you mean? God allows us to choose?

Stuart

Stuart, the difficulty is not that the answer is too hard, or that the answer is beyond you (or me, for that matter), the problem is that the answer isn't really knowable. We can take some guesses, but there's no way to verify their accuracy. If you look at scripture, you'll see that God allows suffering to happen -- and this is normal. A lot of preachers like to preach about how wonderful life is, and how perfect everything is, and how the grace is God is always happiness and joy. In reality, it isn't always bowls of cherries and fields of wildflowers. Paul talks about all kinds of personal misery, for example. There are sometimes reasons given for the suffering, but not always. The point that LenDaddy is trying (tactlessly) to make, is that the unverifiable nature of the answer makes the question like asking "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" It's a fun discussion for a bunch of drunk theologians, but profits little. (sigh)

But I'll humor you, Stu, 'coz I think you're alright. :) I know you have a Bible handy. Let's pick one random example of suffering from scripture. Check out John chapter 11, tell me why Jesus let Lazarus die. We could also look at Genesis 3, Job, Ecclesiastes, or Romans (6, 8, and ... 9?), and get some answers too, but we'll start with John 11, 'coz it's easy.


BTW, BillyBoy, if you have your Bible handy, you might take a look at Romans 8:28. If your Bible isn't convenient, nevermind.

Dan

He allows us to choose and he allows the natural course of nature to take place. Are you intimating that God made an earthquake and subsequent tsunami to wipe out a bunch of people? Why would he do that?

Problem with Lazarus story though, Shadowfax, is that it is hokum, voodoo, superstition.

Bigger problem tho, is that the weak minded believe it to be true.

In order to beleive this story, you have to beleiev in an omni/omni god. You further have to believe the whole shebang (son of god, sent to save us, died for our sins...)

The only foundation for the veracity of this whole confection is that some people believe it to be true. "Faith", they call it.

In the rational world, evidence is required. And there is none.

stuart